service cost

There's no way in this life time I would let someone dictate to me what work will be done on my own car or what food is going in my belly. I know what I want and I'll find the right person to give me exactly that.

 

I don't know any shoe makers that bill $15k therefore, I want to know what I'm paying for and have no plans to hand over a blank check. I also don't believe in replacing what's not broke like replacing tensioner bearings each major. Not required IMO.

 

Meh. Nice try, but I'll make my list thanks. We can collectively work on it to get the proper end result. But I want to know what I am buying when it comes to this repair.

It is no different than what is covered in the 100 hour / annual on an aircraft.

 

I don't charge $15k nor have I ever suggested it is right to not totally inform the customer in advance, not provide a written estimate or ask for a blank check. In other words all the things I firmly believe in.

You are a damaged customer. The type good shops run from. You will never be happy.

 

And no one has suggested otherwise. I prefer clients with better communication skills so they can read and understand my voluminous emails concerning their car.
I will say I do turn down a fair bit of work from those that feel their knowledge exceeds mine and are asking me to be a participant in a train wreck. I prefer happy customers. Train wrecks generally do not lead to that.

 

Well said

 

I was thinking about this...and I think Brian has a bit of it right and others have the other half.

Look, If I go to a shop and ask for a "major" and they really do not know what to do and I have to provide a list of tasks, then yea, the shop is crap.

If I show up at a shop and they say "here is what I do for a major" and my response is "great, but here is what I expect when you do mine". And that shop calls me a "broken customer". Then yea, that shop too is crap.

The scenario that works for me is a shop that knows what's at hand, will listen to what I want & why and collectively we craft a plan for repairs. That's the shop for me.

Anything else is just a recipe for arguments.

For the record, that is exactly what I found for my aircraft repairs. It works....

 

Now that is well said. Right on the money.

 

In reading this thread, there are definitely two very different ends of the spectrum. There is the owner who wants to bring his car in and tell the shop... Do a major and to have that shop do whatever needs to be done to bring the car back into spec (much like a Ferrari dealership and high end service shops that know these cars and the general customer base well) without having to be involved in the process. On the other end of the spectrum is the person (who may or may not know what he/she is doing) who wants total control over the process and wants to specify exactly what will be done and the manner in which it will be completed (which frankly is more of a pain in the ass for any shop). No one is suggesting that the process cannot be collaborative, it is not my business to tell my hired expert the right way to do a major service but certainly it is appropriate for me to ask them to address specific concerns. This is why finding the right shop can both be so difficult and yet, so important.

That said, if you are the type of person who needs complete control, you should consider doing your own work.

 

Perfectly said and you have just described the 2 real world situations that actually exist.

The client that knows what is needed and can add to the discussion makes up about 1% of the owners and can be a great client, the one we all wish we had but in reality they have gone the way of the Dodo bird.

On a large job I typically exchange a couple thousand words via email with the owner, most before the job starts. They of course make the decisions on what will be done but the details of how it is done is a pretty one way street. If they really do know better than me they are in the wrong shop and they need to find a better one.

 

The nightmare scenario:

Can you do a major on my 355 with the engine in the car. Please keep the old tensioner bearings as they don't make any noise. Don't do the cam timing since it's running fine. And I will provide you with all the parts.

15% off for repeat customer?

 

The nightmare scenario:

I can do a major on your 355. I have done many before and know exactly what you need. Just leave the keys & car here and I'll let you know when I am done and what that final cost will be.

You don't really understand this car and I know EXACTLY what you need.

<gulp>

 

And every single day people are dumb enough to do that. Or when faced with a bill for far more than expected they just pay and assume that is just the way it is. Consumers are their own worst enemy.

 

The art of a truly professional shop (or any business for that matter) is having the ability to patiently guide a client through a process they may wholly, partially, or do not, understand. Some customers may be more difficult than others.

Any shop with the inability to manage within each area of owner capability will limit their market...either knowingly or not.

 

Repeat customer? That guy would never make it through the door twice.

Quite common actually.

I was interviewed once by someone who wanted to bestow upon me the privilege of doing his 355 major. After taking about an hour and a half of my time he said he intended to supply the parts and how big was his discount. I responded it would be 25% more than the prior price quote and there would be no warranty. It would slow the job down so much from wrong parts, missing parts and substandard parts the labor would be considerably higher and if anything went wrong he would blame my work and I would blame his parts so just head that one off at the pass and have no warranty.

I walked him to the door while I was thanking him for thinking of me.

 

Our market is limited by available talent to fix the cars. My business in California had enough clientele available to support more good mechanics than existed in Northern California.

In a year and a half I am near critical mass for the available talent in Central Texas but then cars are coming from both coasts so I guess I'll need to rob people from the coasts as well.

 

If you know the cam timing is right there is no reason to do it again. Tolerances on belts are such that the max error would be on the order of 1/2 degree. If you believe belts stretch, a new belts will restore the timing to where it was when the previous belts were installed.

 

Have you done a cam timing on a 355 John, personally?

 

Nice to see you back Dave.Great price on your HVAC 355 overlays.

 

That has no relevance to the issue. Tolerances pitch and belt length do.

 

A while back I did not really agree with this to some extent but I've changed my view. I agree with John almost 100%. For example, my 98 F1 will need a major in about a year. The last major was done by one of the best techs in the USA - Tony D formerly of Algar. The car runs perfect. So, when I do the major, I will swap the belts with current timing but because I am OCD, I will then check it after and adjust if needed only.

 

Thank you very much, Michael

 

+1.

 

With out question. ALL OFF THEM!

 

Meh.

All you do is walk in sit down and eat whatever they put in front of you. It's good stuff too.