Service Shop Issue: Seeking Opinions

With the utmost in respect all I can say is

Shame on you

If we only make these mistakes we win

 

Is this the same shop to whom you just gave 25k for a major? Not that is changes the circumstances at hand, but does show them you are a loyal customer. If the facts are as you articulated them, I don't think it would be out of the question to ask for a reduced charge in installing the rebuilt rack. Perhaps something like "at cost" would be in order.

I think the key to this going smoothly is to do it in person. Write down what happened and your thoughts on it, pretty much as you have done throughout this thread. Go over it with them; Here's what happened, here's what I think/found, here's what I wish you would have told me first, here's what I would like to do about it.

Much good info has come up through this thread. It sounds like that rack can be problematic, no doubt the shop knows this. They were likely quick to pick up on your meticulous attention to detail in maintaining your Ferrari and presented you with the option most likely to make you happy in the long run. Is it the best business practice? Maybe not, but Ferrari owners are a finicky bunch. You could have just as easily scoffed at the offer to only replace the failed inner tie rod, or returned unhappily a few months later when the other side failed.

The best approach to avoiding situations like this I have seen is at BMW San Diego. I went in for an alignment after getting new tires and they identified several issues needing attention. My service adviser told me over the phone, then e-mailed me a document with what was wrong (complete with pictures), implications of not fixing it, and a cost break down of how much each item cost to repair/replace. Really a nice tidy package.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDnivh5Odfk&feature=player_detailpage]The Mechanic & the Customer - YouTube[/ame]

NSFW for audio. Not entirely applicable, but some points are close...

I laugh my head off every time I hear this!

 

Well said and has anyone even considered the liability if the replaced part failed or even the non replaced part failed. Replacing part of the rack in my opinion would open a real can of worms in the future.

 

For the shop I mean but to do it yourself well that's different.

 

Oddly enough this is the exact reason I threw in the towel on a car I swore I'd never sell. I had all sorts of alignment issues and eventually traced it to a bad steering rack. I had a rebuilt one put in, which soon crapped out on me, so after the second steering rack replacement in a matter of months, I gave up. It's one of several common issues that doesn't come up for some reason, so you're not alone in this. It's not just headers and valve guides...

As for the shop, I legitimately felt bad asking them to do it again considering that replacing the steering rack is one of the most painful things to do on a 355. However, in my line of work and I assume most others, especially auto repair, if someone said that xyz was bad, I'd want to replace xyz, not x. I figure if one portion is bad, it's safer to replace the whole thing rather than wait for the other half to go bad as well. The guys in question aren't the type to yank your chain either, so I'd recommend rebuilding/selling any spares you have or stashing them away for the next time, which could be right around the corner. The amounts you're talking about aren't much different than what I dealt with a year ago either, so it doesn't sound out of the norm.

 

LOL. at our shop tho , we never tell handjob's not to come back , we just say " were booked solid for the next six month's"

uh oh , now there's some guys on here saying " hmmm , my shop is booked for six month's too " LOL

 

btw. why 2k for labor ? book time on that job is 9.5 hours. Are you going to a shop with a labor rate of $225.00 ?

I found that rack for $1275.00 , even at $100 .00 per hour labor , shop will mark that rack up to $1500.00, so that totals $2450.

Where does the 7k number come from?

Doesn't anyone ask questions? or does saying a rack costs $7k make the car seem so exotic that it pumps up the ego of the owner?

Lets say i even mark that rack up $400 , $950 for labor , after i pay an employee , i'm still making over $1000. for a one day job for one employee , that's more than fair. Who on gods earth are you taking these cars to for repairs? Oh excuse me , i forgot an air con recharge for $99.00 plus an alignment.

 

Labor for Ferrari shop runs $145. Then you have to pay for coolant, for AC refrigerant recharge, for brake fluid bleeding, and for alignment. Taxes on the parts, shop fees for misc and you will get to $2000.

Let me guess that you have never done this before?

 

Gross and Net are two different things. Do you have a free shop, no rent or taxes, free tools, etc?

$7k seems crazy to me also remember, one always has a choice.

 

coolant=cheap , refrig= cheap , brake fluid=cheap ,alignment=no big deal, brake fluid =cheap. garage =tax exempt.

no , i was not born yesterday.

Why $145 hour? Oh " ferrari labor" because unbolting a sway bar , and removing an air con unit is so much different on a "ferrari" than any other car.

We do service ferrari's for a few select customers and we charge them the same labor rate we charge on a ford.or a toyota ....Again select customers , that we have chosen because they are "low maintenance" . and i'm not referring to the car i mean the customer. I notice some other garage owners on here, and maybe i'm going to be the only one who has the balls to say this , but , come to us be friendly and not a complete ball buster , and we are happy to fix your car for a fair price, come in here be a whiny tightass pretentious dick and we will nail you to the cross with the bill. as customers , when you get a quote of $7000.00 for a steering rack , step back and ask yourself which category of customer i described you may fit into.second , do some research , even if i knew nothing about cars , i would have to question some of the numbers i have seen thrown around FC for repairs.With the exception of some internal engine work , nothing else on these cars is beyond the level of competence of any good mechanic.In fact , and i've said this before , a 348/355 is simpler than 99% of the cars we work on every day. You do not "need" to pay Ferrari expert $145 an hour to change brake pads when a shop that charges $75 an hour can do it with competence. You can if it makes you fell good , but don't whine about the cost of 348/355 repairs

 

+1000

 

John, did you see Roadracers thread on the rack removal and install? It's extremely involved, meaning many more hours than other cars.

 

I know its involved, and space is tight, but nothing about it is rocket science, like i said , book time is 9.5 hours, probably underestimated , but as a garage we bill all jobs on book time , win/lose/or draw. We just did a job on a c230 benz that mercedes book time is 10.6 hours , it actually took a little over 4 hours - win ! In the end it all works out . If the rack job took 15 , i'd bill it out for 9.5 , for the right customer , for the wrong customer " sorry were booked solid for 6 months " lol

 

It took me 2 minutes to go on the internet and find the " $ 5000.00 " rack for $1275 from italiancarparts. use common sense guys.

And please dont argue an oem part is better. Ferrari did not manufacture the rack , they bought it from a supplier like TRW or Borg Warner. For all we know the same exact unit is in a jeep cherokee. Just like hundreds or thousands of other parts in the car, its mostly bought from suppliers, the interesting part is finding out which parts they are and how they can be sourced. Those facts are mostly known by pencil pushers some where inside those suppliers books , some have been uncovered, abs unit - thousands from ferrari , same as a ford thunderbird , and so on.....sorry for me i'm buying the $1275 rack not the $5000. one.

 

FYI John if you weren't aware there is a cross reference sticky for 355 at the top of this forum. If the rack isn't there you should add that source to the sticky thread.

 

Strange, the part number at ICP is different. Perhaps not the power steering unit? The correct part is available for around $2500 from Eurospares.

 

As a DIY'er I hope you are around to help us source cheap parts. You seem to be good at it and willing to offer your knowledge for free. Thanks!

If I was a shop owner I would question your business acumen and feel you do a disservice to your profession by the comments you post here and on the other thread going in a similar nature. You seem to not take into account so many costs of doing business. The way you present what charges should be sound great if you are working out of your home garage with no overhead and things like, no work comp insurance on employees, no general liability insurance, and never factoring in things like your equipments costs, and not factoring in government controls like chemical disposal, business licenses, taxes etc. You also seem to place no value on your expertise or the expertise of your colleagues. If you are smart enough to source cheaper alternative bearings from a bearing house vs. ferrari bearings in the yellow box or smart enough to source an alternate rack than the $5000 ferrari retail rack why shouldn't you be paid for that knowledge? Why should a shop take the liability risk or just bad reputation risk of repairing a rack when a new one has the highest probability of no come backs? Altruism is great but it is bad business to expose yourself to unnecessary risk. There are some systems where it is also not in your best interest to expose your customer to risk because you are the pro. What are you going to say to the plaintiff lawyer when he asks if there is anything you could have done to prevent the rack from failing when the driver was going 100mph and you say maybe a new rack. What are you going to say when the lawyer asks if you rebuild racks to the standard of a shop that specializes in rack rebuilding? These are just some of the realities of running any business.

There are so many nuances of every make and model of car that demands specific knowledge to really be an expert not just a part replacer. A shop that does not know any better just orders a Ferrari bearing from anyone selling cheapest on-line. Are you familiar with the problems of counterfeit bearings and who in the Ferrari parts supply chain is doing the most to make sure you get non-counterfeit bearings? Shouldn't you be paid for that expert knowledge of who to buy from? If you buy poor bearings your repair does not last and your reputation suffers. Are you familiar with the specifics of the 550 timing bearings from Ferrari SPA that just won't hold up to the job and do you have a work around for that? Shouldn't you be paid for that special knowledge or will you put the poor Ferrari bearings in and send the car out the door? What do you tell your customer when it comes back? Do you think they will buy that is it Ferrari's fault not yours? How much should you be paid for the risk of this headache?

Yes you are right, owners need to ask questions. The questions are more than price. The most important question is where is the value in this service. If your service is just a commodity you will be outcompeted by the next hungry cheapest guy. If you educate your customer on your value you will be like some of the most respected pros, some who unfortunately no longer post here, or do so infrequently, because so many people just don't get it.

I am shocked but not surprised that people here want to blame the shop or expect any restitution or consideration at all. The only thing that the shop did wrong is not stick to their diagnosis and their plan to change the rack to a new one. They should have sent the OP packing. They did themselves no good and ruined their relationship with the customer. They should have let some other shop have the problems they are now having with the customer and then the OP would have come running back to the shop who always did them right. The shop was at least smart enough to not change the inner rod and take the liability for that. I'm a DIY'er and I would have no problem changing that rod on my car but only a foolish shop would go down that road for a customer.

 

For anyone wanting to do research on the racks, here's one example. This is a close-up of the markings on my steering rack. I took photos to make sure that the rack I got back from the rebuilders was the same <7k mile rack that I sent out
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Is that for a new rack? Or used

 

First to start, our shop is in a small town , the main consideration of customers around here is price.Wages and labor rates here are low. Even at say $90.00 per hour for labor, paying employees $20.00 per hour , leaves plenty of room for the costs of overhead.

Second, we only service a few Ferrari's for a simple reason, there are only a handful of them around here. I wish there were enough around that i could base my business around them and be the local Ferrari expert. If i offer any advice on this forum its basically from my knowledge of auto repair in general. Now that I've been under the skin of some 348/355 cars i realize there is no magic and see nothing that requires the expertise of a Ferrari specialist. I get the vibe on this forum that owners , maybe those with no mechanical ability are fooled into believing that the 348/355 is so exotic that only a $250 an hour expert is qualified to work on it. If an owner has such deep pockets and wants to buy that peace of mind , good for him , but owners without such deep pockets should feel comfortable that any experienced mechanic is capable of repairing a 348/355 for more modest costs.

Third , it shouldn't be taken as bashing colleagues, i just want to give a view from the inside of a repair facility for those who don't see it from this point of view.And it shouldn't be construed as trying to drum up business . i never mention the name of our shop. and i'm 100% sure no other shop owners from my area read this. we only work on a few select Ferrari's for good customers and i want to keep it that way without adding any more Ferrari customer base.

as far as the example you use of the bearing. i'll bet money that when you pull that bearing out of the Ferrari box and look close it says something like skf . i'd rather just buy it in the skf box. ( or whatever brand it actually is ) Ferrari is such a low volume manufacturer , i'll bet they produce the body , chassis , and engine and outsource the production to outside companies and buy many major components from outside manufacturers . hell gm doesn't even manufacture the carpets for their cars , they are made here in penna.

In my opinion a good shop will give the customers all the options , from used parts, to aftermarket to oem , explain the difference , the consequences and let the owner make the decision what they want , it is their car. rather than just say "well a rack is $5000"
Whether its a ford or a Ferrari there is always more than one way to go about the repairs. Jeez , when a shop says a rack is 5k ask if there's options.

BTW i don't what the beef is with you , i like your posts , you're one of he few posters who offer a wealth of knowledge , that can be helpful on many levels

 

Agreed! I am glad you took my post in the spirit it was intended. I was reluctant to post it. Some have short fuses. It is nice to have a discussion with someone like yourself who has a clear head. I know where you are coming from and what you say makes sense. Thanks for your reply.

 

I was trying to figure that out too. The website says "new" but then they seem to have a core charge. Which is strange for a "new" part. If it's a rebuild, then it costs more than twice as much as just shipping the original rack off to Atlantic.

 

That rack is a trw part with a Ferrari part number, How awesome would it be to hack into trw and find out what it is common with. Could it be a $400.00 part that fits an Alfa romeo?

I may be a dumb mechanic now , but my education is in industrial engineering,( automotive ) and i know parts from suppliers generally aren't designed specifically for a particular make and model, the CARS are engineered to accept parts based on their specifications , ie: length diameter .....

a hot topic is valve guides. There are only a few actual manufacturers of valve guides worldwide, engineers design the cylinder head around the valve guide they have chosen that they believe fits the need. based on length , diameter and so on , that valve guide in a 355 may be the same one bought by Chrysler for a neon. valves - bought. engine management - bought.......

While on the subject of weak points, headers. I see a lot of anger directed to Ferrari over headers , built by ansa , in that case designed for the application , but not actually built by Ferrari, blame ansa , possibly Ferrari for not specifying an appropriate part.

Any way that's all of topic , point is , that rack is only a $5000 part when it wears a Ferrari part number and is sold thru Ferrari , if that same rack wore an alfa part number for example , it would probably only be worth four or five hundred bucks.

Somewhere hidden deep in Ferrari paperwork , is the answer to all this , we just need to figure a way to access it!

 

I think the easiest route to finding the cross reference is to call someone on the tech line at A1 Cardone and ask them. They are probably the largest rebuilder in the country, so if anyone would know the interchange, they would.