Setting up cams | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Setting up cams

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by fatbillybob, Apr 29, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    There is a great deal of truth in what you just said. Both of mine are sure "off". Most times on most engines I would just line up all the silly marks and call it a day. It ran before, it will run again. And you have more than obviously shown that at least in the case of the later cars that Ferrari really started getting thier index marks more spot on. Its these older cars that are spotty I guess. Seriously, my rear intake cam mark is off quite a ways.

    But I also remember the old American Iron, and when you go back reading stuff about them today and realise how screwed up most were, you realise how much we probably missed by just one time degreeing the darn things and making some better marks. I recall a few guys that went that extra mile back when I was a kid, and no one could touch them on the street.

    One thing I would add caution to is matchbooks under the cam caps to lock the cams. I stated this before but just in case no one was listening, be very very careful doing this. Its a good way to hold the cam, and if you only gently screw down the nuts finger tight you wont have any problems. But if you overtighten the nuts, and it really wont take very much torque, much less torque than indicated, you could snap the cam cap in half like a potato chip. This isnt BS either it has happened. A long time ago someone cautioned doing this for a whole other reason. Someone had forgot to remove a matchbook and put the motor back together and ran it. It did some really awful damage.

    If you have the cams indexed, and the belt is on with the tensioner adjusted up, you can remove the cam bolt, slip out the pin, and carefully turn the camshaft slightly to align a different pin hole. The problem comes when no appropriate pin holes are available. You then need to pull the belt sprocket off the cam, slip the belt over the sprocket one way or other, and pop the sprocket back onto the cam. Thats why the front exhaust cam is so hard to do on a 308, you cant very well get your head up in there to see and still have any arms that work. At least with a 348 the darn thing is sitting out on the floor :)
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,430
    socal
    Paul has absolutely spoken the truth. I beleive too that you need to degree the cams at least once. Engine wear effects cam timing how much I do not know. Since I don't know I just degree the cams every time. It is quick and easy. I really don't see any reason not to do it.

    There are always guys too strong for their own good. Do you know another way of locking cams? I think the only other way is more of my kluged custom tools. I have never seen a special tool and I learned the matchbook method from a real mechanic. So I do not know another way. If you look again at the pictures you can see the matchbook method I use makes the paper tabs stick out so you can see them. I do not ever bury a cover under a cap. It is a point I did not make. Paul makes a very important point you cannot leave a matchbook cover in there under any circumstances. Personally, I acutally do not use matchbooks but use the sleeves of single edge razor blades. I buy razor blades by the 100 pack then I do not need to cut the covers and I don't smoke. The principle is the same.
     
  3. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,418
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    Any tricks to dialing in the front exhaust cam on a 308 while the engine is in the car?
     
  4. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul

    No trick I know of. By the time I cram my nose up in there so I can see pin holes, I cant remember which way is advance or retard. I move a pin hole and find I went the wrong way, then move a pin hole and find im back where I started again. It can be rather frustrating. Do that cam first and only when your not tired. That one cam seems about the hardest obstacle of all of it, and I think that stupid AC compressor is about the most difficult second to that front cam.
     
  5. stevew

    stevew Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2002
    1,839
    uk
    Full Name:
    Steve
    #30 stevew, May 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    Great write-up!

    Quick question: Is it possible to use a crank degree wheel with the engine IN the car, specifically in a Mondial 8 major service?
     
  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,576
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    78 in/lbs, or 6.5 ft/lbs. Not very much.
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,430
    socal
    Yes. You need to either connect to the flywheel or the crank snout. I say use the crank snout because it is much easier.
     
  9. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    By crank snout you mean the end of the crank opposite the flywheel/clutch? So just put it on over the crank pully?
     
  10. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,844
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    You can most likely fit a smaller degree wheel onto the crank in the Mondial. The degree wheels come in different diameters. Obviously, the larger the wheel the more accurate the degree readings. Once you've opened things up down there, you can get a sense of how much room you have, and that will dictate how large a wheel you can adapt to the crank pulley.

    Just be sure, when you set up your pointer, that you use something relatively stiff, and attach it to the engine block if you can. You don't want to take any chances that your pointer might move or be bent by accident, as it will really throw things off.
     
  11. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
  12. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,430
    socal
    #38 fatbillybob, May 22, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes...sometimes you need to take a qucik down and dirty TDC reading and I'll cobble a degree wheel like this wired to the holes in the 348 dampner. I can't remember what 308's have. Or you can run without the dampner on 348's and bolt directly without modification right on the crank snout using the summit racing degree wheel. You will need to figure out what fits for your car and what does not hit. There are 9" wheels, you can use a small kids protractor, and you can use giant 20" wheels that are so strong you can turn the motor with them. Here are pictures of a cobbled degree wheel with wire and a bolted degree wheel.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page