And for posterity: Injector connectors: http://www.connectorsfast.com/store/products.asp?whichpage=2&pagesize=20&sqlQuery=SELECT+*+FROM+products+WHERE+CatID+%3D+108+AND+SubCatID+%3D+61+AND+StockQty+%3E%3D+1+AND+Status+%3D+'Yes'+ORDER+BY+SortOrder%2C+Name%3B&Cat=Connectors&SubCat=Connectors
There's a cool way to connect them without the rubber boots. Chuck them in a lathe ... clean them up and put in an o-ring groove ... I think there's enough material. And then you can just "insert" the TB's into the intake manifold runners which will have the proper i.d. machined for the o-ring ... still need a positive hold down still but need that with the rubber boots. That's about the only thing I'd do differently ... maybe cross the runners over and make them longer if I wasn't going to compromise any top end power ... I don't have any simulation to answer that. cheers
Sorry to hear about the health issues. I'm not familiar with DTA. This "mad scientist" engineer we know is building an ECU that will manage individual cylinder fuel delivery maps by analyzing the individual cylinder manifold pressure pulse in each intake runner (we hope). I've not had to worry about that on my plenum EFI setup and I've got this running with throttle position sensing which is how the old "race" mechanical fuel injection setups worked. It might be too crude without sequential injection which is what the good mechanical systems were/are. Hopefully I'll get her on the road soon. cheers
LOL Don't hold your breath just yet. I'm only in the scrounging phase. I want to finish this driving season first (and finish the new engine for the aircraft during that time), and do the EFI project next winter. But fun it will be!!
This sounds neat, but what would be the aim, other than looks? As things are now, there is at least some thermal isolation going on, which is always a good thing (thinking vapor lock now)... Crossing the runners would be nice, but it looks like that would require squeezing the runners a bit into an oval shape, as the intake diameter is 48 mm and the center-to-center distance is 80 mm. So even when not taking wall thickness into account, the tubes are 8 mm (nearly 3/8") too wide to cross when keeping them round. Of course, not all tubes would need to cross at one line in the center, but I really don't feel like opening that can of worms of spaghetti-ing a whole bunch of intake runners around each other... Bottom line: I think I'll follow your example and go with short J-shaped intake runners and rubber boots to attach them.
That is definitely the simplest path. It is in my nature to look for a "different" and hopefully "better" way of doing just about everything. I like the thermal insulation the boots provide ... that's an excellent point. Somebody mentioned the o-ring connection method after I was talking about putting flanges on the TB's "next time" ... in one post you've convinced me not to do that . I have drawings of the runners ... I'll send those to you so you can see the pieces I made, welded together, and blended. I really think the hardest part was packaging the throttle linkage in there to have the correct travel on the butterflies and not bind. I also have the flange drawing and how much I changed the spacing in the middle ... no need to go thru all that again. The throttle linkage is so tight in there ... you really might have to duplicate what I did in there ... be nice if the carb linkage will work for you though. cheers cheers
Glad that could keep you off the path of uselessness... Drawings of the runners and throttle linkages would be VERY useful and highly appreciated indeed!! I myself can identify 100% with your remark of looking for that better mousetrap. I'm working on Subaru engine number three for my experimental airplane, plus I've done one for a friend of mine. (see www.lufthans.nl). All engines required loads of fabbing and tinkering to get working properly (including redundant sensors for everything, redundant electricaly systems, a second ECU, automated fall-back in case of ECU failure, etc). It's just that the guy who's been doing all my aluminium welding has moved, and it's a long drive to visit him. I've got a TIG welder. I guess now's as good a time as any to start learning how to weld aluminium.... The alternative would be to construct the intake manifolds out of carbon fiber, but somehow that would look out of place on my '74 GT4.... Looking forward to those drawing Sean. Thanks!
Sounds like you like having project overload just like I do. I had welded "tons" of steel before I started this project ... it was a good project on which to learn about aluminum welding. After finishing this I had to make an aluminum dry sump tank. I had .045" thick aluminum sheeting to work with. After playing with that going back to the wall thickness of the runners is like welding steel! ... there is no substitute for experience! ... well there is ... an insanely fat checkbook 'cause then you can just pay someone LOL. I'll get those drawings together. cheers
Oh, the NEXT project is already forming in my head too: 3D-scanning of a very detailed 1:8 scale body of one of those. Then laser-cutting a zillion MDF tranches and piecing together a male mould. Pulling a female mould off this, and then doing a carbon fiber body. Welding together a frame, heavily leaning on the Lotus 7 architecture Taking the running gear of an E46 BMW M3, but without the dampening airbox on the intake Fabbing a ton of authentic-looking parts Buying 4 original Borrani wheels 1500 lbs, 340 hp. Can you feel the excitement growing? But first things first: 1: Finish the aircraft 2: Do the EFI conversion on the Dino 3: Build the 860 Monza look-a-like Oh... to win the lottery and have all the time in the world... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
That is a cool project Hans and I like the idea of making "new parts" look like they were made 50+ years ago. I was over at a restoration shop a few years ago looking at all kinds of goodies I could reproduce. These guys charge big bucks for their restorations and preach "quality" and then wanted to beat me down on every part ... they use the words "quality" and "low bid" in the same sentence. I told them "If you have someone else doing all this already why do you need me to look at it?" ... answer: "Because we're not happy with the quality and mass produced appearance" ... but then weren't happy with my price ... so typical ... whine about quality AND price. I really luv making prototypes and that's exactly what this was about ... make it look "old" and "hand built" like a blacksmith made it ... it would've been a fun project but I sensed the guy wanting to cash in on my "passion" . I figured out all the tolerances on someones parts here at fchat and I don't think I ever even heard a "thank you" ... just something like "huh, the other shop didn't need to do that" ... yeah ... and the "other shop" is out of business and I saw numerous posts about the parts not working. I don't mind helping people out but when people want to financially profit off of favors it's a little annoying ... a "business" should be willing to pay a fair price for technical advice AND manufacturing services ... if not they should just follow the Walmart model (and many do) and go to China ... they do all the "Chineering" for you ... just need to send them a "sample" and wait a few months for the junk to arrive ... rant over . Back to the project list. I think my plan is: 1. Start beating up on the really fast Porsche's at the autocross with my "Alpha Dog" 308. This car will ultimately get my dry sump and ITB motor. For big tracks I like to have a cage so I don't plan on doing too much of that with this car. 2. Finish my "Hairdresser" 308 just for the street and to pass smog. My wife is able to drive this car also. I'll put proper a/c in it. Jratcliff on a thread in another forum seems to have come across an aftermarket modern HVAC system with the heater cores and a/c evaporator all built into it. 3. Build my 348 to go race in some series with the "big boys". 4. Turbo or supercharge a 308. I'll see when I get to 3 if I decide to go with 4 first
Hey, I have some of those. I'm making slow progress. I'm tapering runners right now. Maybe this winter I'll be firing it up? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Also looking good Brian! Will you be following Seans example, or do you plan to do some things differently? Also 2V engine?
Hmmm, seems like you've got your hands full too. My fear is that once I get the CarbonMonza running, I'll start neglecting the Dino. I am very much a diehard convertible driver (down to the low 20's F with the heater at full blast), and I simply miss that open top with the Dino. Ah, we'll see. One thing at the time. Dino first...
Another cool project in the making??!! Oh man, i better get posting something in my thread besides Pizza and Subs.
Yeah, you'd better Chris (Don't worry, I'll only be really starting this fall... just gathering stuff right now..)
Sean and I are doing things similarly so far, but mostly independently. We will see where I wind up. Yes, it will go on the 2V motor in my GT4. Did I mention I have a long way to go?
Continuing to collect stuff for this project. Already some time ago, I've asked Nick Forza about his 60-2 toothed wheel and sensor, as this seems to be the most popular way to do an EFI conversion. Or does someone have another (better/cheaper/smarter) idea? I'll be using a Vipec V88 ECU, as I have one lying around and I like them. Then there is the issue of load sensing. I'd prefer MAP over TPS. But there is something that Mark E. taught us on MAP on multi-cylinder engines: only one cylinder at the time will have a low MAP value, while the other 7 will return to ambient pretty quickly. So tying all 8 together into a small cavity that holds the MAP sensor - as is common practise - you'll have one line sucking air out of the cavity and 7 filling it again, resulting in a very poor MAP signal. The solution: a printed board containing 8 MAP sensors and some switching circuitry, selecting the lowest MAP reading of the 8. Mark was going to produce a batch. Does anyone have his email address by any chance? And Sean, did you manage to dig up those drawings yet? I'm still very interested!! THanks! Hans
Here's the runner. See if those numbers make sense ... 45's are schedule something aluminum pipe ... I bought 90's and cut them in half per advice here. I'll figure out the center line offset for you later ... I basically lined up the bottom 2 pieces on center line and offset the top piece ... welded it up and blended with die grinder cheers Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wish i had the time and tallent... Are you trying to match the intakes to the stock air cleaner so you can use the cool air intake or,are you going to "do your own thang"??? ?? chris
Brilliant! Do you happen to have a drawing of that base plate too? That would enable me to start cutting without taking the carbs off the engine just yet.. Thanks!! Hans
