SF90 Stradale exclusivity | Page 2 | FerrariChat

SF90 Stradale exclusivity

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by ponyis458, Jun 7, 2020.

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  1. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting
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    Ferrari is making a set number of vehicles for each model - as they did in the 80's. Nothing new in that. They build to market demand, or theoretically to one unit below. Nothing new in that. With the SF-90, just as with your Lusso of the 80's, they will create a few units and make it available first to their top clients.

    If you wanted the car today, and your dealer had a build allocation for an SF-90 available, would you be able to spec the car and buy it? Unless you are part of an exclusive group in SpA's profile bank (VIP 1-10%), you probably can't. The dealer will take his his build allocation and offer it to someone with a higher profile.

    In a couple years, we may see that the SF-90 model blows up and there are lots of near-new Stradale's in showrooms. But for right now, the car is extremely exclusive. At least, it is here in the US.
     
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  2. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I think now that Ferrari is public, it will be as exclusive as how many people that want a 600K Ferrari exists and can buy one - which I believe will still be a small portion of the populous. I think you can rest easy friend that they'll be still relatively rare, even though not strictly 'limited edition.'

    Congratulations as well!!!
     
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  3. Astrid.Didier

    Astrid.Didier Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2019
    651
    There is not much demand for the SF90, in general none likes it, which means you won't see as many of it around anywhere in the future, that makes the SF90 very exclusive for the reason mentioned!
    And for the availability/wait time of the SF90, it's better to ask your dealer directly, forget about the forum, just go straight to your dealer and probably you will know exactly about the availability/wait time of SF90 etc..

    Cheers,
     
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  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Good points, totally agree on both.
     
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  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    This.

    Barry, of course I do not know every guy who was turned down. You know that, and I know that. But I do have a network of people in the aforementioned countries, who were turned down. Some I know, would not be a good indicator of the market, but I know others that are. There's of course a difference between what it represents if someone who's only buying his first new Ferrari gets turned away versus the guy who's getting number 20 or 30. Like I said, some of the clients are very used to being offered everything VS, LE and low vol. No problem with Pistas, no problem with GTS and so forth. But they cannot aquire an SF90. It does not matter if they ask multiple dealers or Maranello directly. It has been that way since fall last year. So until six weeks ago, your dealer had confirmed allocations? I'd be more than interested in knowing who that is, because I know plenty of clients and dealers who would want those allocations.

    As it stands right now, the SF90 is a fairly exclusive car. Additionally, I would like to point something out. To call a car of that level of production and price anything but highly exclusive, would be silly. Most people will go through life not even seeing one, let alone drive or own one. I think those of us who can either afford the cars or at least get to be around them on a daily basis, can sometimes get a skewed perception of what things are. Walking down the street, it takes more than a 458SA to get me to stop snd look. We get accustomed to these things and that makes us look differently at what defines exclusivity. From a Ferrari owners standpoint, yes, it is still exclusive. Production is not massive like a 458 or 488, and it is at a price bracket where many who might be able to swing an F8 cannot afford an SF90. It is for all intended purposes in a price which by itself makes it exclusive.

    One thing I seem to find with the SF90 is this. It is without a doubt the single most polarizing Ferrari I have come across. I find that people on one side of the fence, is so upset about the whole hybrid thing or the price, that they take every single chance they get to rip on it. There's no doubt that there are those who now feel insecure because they know they.are looking at a future where they will be the owners of the "little car", i.e LB. Prior to the SF90, there was only one range in the mid engined segment, and thst ownership was viewed on the same exclusivity level as the V12 cars. Similar price bracket etc. and the more focused car has its own "merritt" as a drivers car. But with the introduction of the BB and LB concept, it is clear that there's a new rift between owners. I have spoken to 488 and F8 owners, who are directly against the SF90, because they feel that such an expensive and extreme car devalue them as Ferrari owners and clients. I get it, if you're used to feeling like top dog because you could get the latest mid engined Ferrari every time it came out, and thus get the attention and bragging rights some associate with that, it can be a bit of an ice bath to suddenly realize that the future is a V6 and you're no longer playing in the big leagues. All this is of course somewhat arbitrary stuff, but I do find it both interesting and a bit annoying that so many are so focused on bringing the SF90 down. Can't help but feeling that if Ferrari has made such a big dent in the bootlid of the exotic car comunity, they must have done something right. If this car would not change the balance of power as it were, and not have a severe impact on what people look at as fast and extreme, it would not have caused such a stir. Fact is that more often than not, people tend to focus negatively on what changes their position. Not saying that is the case in this thread, I'm just making a general observation on how I have seen the SF90 received, both by the Ferrari comunity as a whole, as well as the general public.

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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    You are very new to the Ferrari comunity and not an owner. What exactly is your basis of reference? Please explain how you know that the SF90 is generally not liked. That is a down right ridiculous statement to make as fact. You're not even in the market for one, and yet ypu know what its popularity and availability is? I've gone through the order process and have attended the venues. I've seen the reactions from buyers and prospects. What exactly is it that provides you with factual knowledge about its popularity and success? You are one of ghe people I think of, when I think about people putting down something in an objective fashion, because of their personal dislike. You've been all over the place talking about puchasing used mid engined V8's to a Roma purchase - all of it "just around the corner", but nothing has happened. I recall your rant about your "designer friend" and your comments about Manzoni designs. You are not speaking from experience and you are not objective. You have it in for the SF90 even though you cannot afford or get one - I would not be surprised if that is why.

    As for asking your dealer vs. a forum? Of course you need to ask your dealer, but that does not take away from the fact that some good info can be easier found on these boards. These boards are for all intended purposes more often than not, better informed than both the motoring press as well as many dealer employees.

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  7. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Ferrari claims 10% of SF’s will go to first time buyers as a corporate mandate. I wonder if those are all allocated.
     
  8. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    Forgive me for saying so but that is absolute b/s
    Two of my friends just bought slots in the secondary market for 100k over (yes they couldn’t get one from European dealers) and my car is 2 months away and already I m getting lots of enquirers (not interested, not selling)
    The car seems to be doing fine as far as I can see


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  9. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Well said! In general, most of us who are enthusiasts, owners, passionate about something tend to get hung up on the things we love. We tend to think those are good things and other things are not good. These are things which either came before or are available now. There’s nothing wrong with that. But the world keeps changing.

    If your job is to sell for the future, then you have to do things that sometimes will bother those looking backwards (I am not calling us backwards people, but we should admit to ourselves that we are looking backwards).

    I think the car is fascinating and will be a real winner for Ferrari. If you don’t like the SF90, they are still making the V12s and the F8, both are more traditional.


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  10. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Spot on.
     
  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Indeed, sorta I suppose. What I was told was that they wanted a certain amount to go to low level clients, not necessarily pure first timers. Think along the lines of the guy who has only bought one or two used cars, one car owners, Maserati clients etc. Asking a dealer to find clients with no previous history what so ever for the SF90 is a tall order.
     
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  12. Gator Ferrari

    Gator Ferrari Rookie

    May 15, 2010
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    In June I was told:

    1. The first set of dealer allocations are “sold”, which is about 18 months worth of production/deliveries.

    2. Ferrari plans to make ~500 coupes in year one, ~500 coupes in year two, and then ~500 spiders in year 3 and ~500 spiders in year 4. So around 1,000 coupes and around 1,000 spiders total are projected to be built.

    3. Dealers expect to get a small number of additional coupe allocations before the spider allocations are made. Dealers may request an additional coupe allocation on an individual client / case basis and submit the request along with the client’s planned specification to Ferrari corporate for approval.

    4. Approved additional allocations will deliver in 18-24 months.

    5. The spider will not be available with the Assetto Fiorano package, only the coupes.

    6. It is estimated that 50% of coupes to date have been ordered with the Assetto Fiorano package, which means that possibly only about 500 SF90 cars built in total will have the Assetto Fiorano package (if the spider may not be optioned with AF).

    7. Ferrari wants the buyers of this model to appreciate all of the technology and F1 engineering carried into the design and has asked dealers to lean toward additional allocations going to clients who own and appreciate track-focused cars. This is a part of the approval matrix for granting additional allocations.

    8. Ferrari prefers specifications that have the black-roof option (I didn’t get a clear answer as to why). Some have said it makes the car appear lower and some have said it has to do with relative ease of manufacture.

    9. If you want a SF90 and your dealer thinks you are a good candidate who is likely to be awarded an allocation, the GM will approve you to apply and you will be able to sign the contract, place a deposit, build your desired specification, and wait for a final decision on approval from Ferrari corporate.
     
  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    I will chime in on 6 and 9.

    When speccing at the atelier back in late feb, they said at that stage about 40% were ordered with AF pack. After that, I was told that the number has dropped. I'm not the least bit surprised to be honest. Many who buy the SF90 have driven race cars, or do drive race cars, and they are not interested in a car that is not properly streetable. One thing is to lose the lifter, but anther is to lose the bumpy road mode. Few think that's a great idea for what is first and foremost a street car.

    Regarding number 9. That's not what happened here. Nothing from Ferrari corporate and have not heard of a single customer who had to be approved. The dealer is in charge. No different than any other purchase.
     
  14. Gator Ferrari

    Gator Ferrari Rookie

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    I’m just reporting what I was told. I’m sure there are many different things told to different people by different dealerships.

    #9 is specific to additional coupe allocations not originally awarded to a dealer (request for additional allocations).

    I do love the bumpy road button and use the front lift frequently, though probably sometimes when not really needed just to be safe. However, I tend to buy the more track oriented packages when available (SV, SVJ, ACR) so I would order AF and in some ways think it could be viewed in the future the way the Weissach package is viewed on the 918.
     
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  15. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    We don't yet know how the car will drive with the AF pack- but I am certain they will not sell a car that is truly not steerable. Around here, you can get by without the lifter. Personally, I find the idea of an uprated suspension exciting.
     
  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Of course not. But I was told that it is significantly harder than anything they have previously done. If that means firmer than a 360CS, no thanks. Of course it will be streetable, but as was also said, it will ride very low and it is very focused. I have asked how it compares to a Pista or TdF, and the simple answer was, "It doesen't". So while we are yet to drive them and feel it, I think it's safe to say that it will be pretty firm. Was told that standard setup will be somewhere in between Pista and F8 in the sense that when bumpy road is selected, it will be much like an F8, but when in Race or CT-OFF it will go as firm as the Pista. That I find to be a great thing to say the least.
     
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  17. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Thank you for the feedback, I hadn't heard this. I actually like the idea that it will be really focused.
     
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  18. day355

    day355 Formula 3

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    What bad marketing, it s funny.
    Even for 50 000 €, i don t want it !
     
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  19. Astrid.Didier

    Astrid.Didier Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2019
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    Hi Co,

    Hope you are fine, I can see you want it to be personal and to be about "ME" instead of the car!! :cool: OK :D but no, no, i'm not going down that road with you :D, ONLY because I love you and I respect you.:D;)

    * So, as for ponyis458, he better asks his dealer OR any other dealer and he will know exactly what I was talking about, and if I was "RIGHT" or "WRONG"!!
     
  20. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    As has been the case with so many threads before (and no doubt threads to come), this discussion is well down the road to the usual case of those members who have the car/ordered car telling everybody else that they don't know what they are talking about or their point of view is irrelevant.

    So, going back to the question of exclusivity, a few thoughts that should help those with an open mind to make up their mind on whether the SF90 is "exclusive" or not:

    1) it is a production car

    2) the availability of allocations at this point sounds similar to the story of the 812, another production car, exactly 3 years ago: the early allocations went to valued Ferrari customers, and the story was completely sold out in some markets. A lot of people here were talking about how hard it was going to be get it, just like now with the SF90. A year and a half or so later, more allocations started becoming available just as the first wave of cars started getting delivered. And many were immediately on the market, and the car was not so "exclusive " or in-demand

    3) Exclusivity is not just about low build numbers. My Lusso V12 is a relatively rare car but it is not a hugely exclusive car because the demand is niche and so limited and you can easily get one now (used). if you wanted. For exclusivity, there is some sense of significant excess demand versus supply over the long run. e.g. limited editions and some special series cars.

    4) If you want to exclusivity in the true sense and not just for this very moment because you have an early allocation, then you really are talking about special series and limited edition cars.

    Meanwhile, congratulations to all those who have an early SF90 allocation. Enjoy your cars when they arrive.

    Finally, @SirPouyan's question, I checked again with my dealer in Germany yesterday. They confirmed that I can order an SF90 if I want but they cannot promise delivery within 2 years. I don't know if every customer can order one but I have been their client since 1982 which may or may not have an effect.
     
  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Agree the feeling of exclusivity belongs primarily to those who ordered one. For everyone else SF90's exclusivity doesn't exist for the simple reason they just don't care enough about the car or what it represents as a Ferrari. The days of exclusivity are well and truly over now unless a car looks blindingly beautiful and exudes all of the usual traits one has become accustomed to seeing and "hearing" from these types of exotics - and has a specific limited number imposed. I was clearly told SF90 is a regular production model and the numbers will be limited in the sense they will be built to those actually wanting one and not just continued to be built without having buyers - a mistake which Mclaren made on certain models. Like any car - as was the case even with 488 - where delivery can take two years due to those who have already ordered that are in front of you, there will be a wait time involved. But if you want an SF90 they will build you one. You may not get one tomorrow but once they get to your number in the Que then yours will get built. But don't be surprised when they ask for a large downpayment when it gets called for build.
     
  22. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    This sounds reasonable to me. I think we have to remember, though, that in general, cars (any new car) stays ‘hot’ in the market for no more than 18 months. If you want to get in and out well, an early car is crucial. I don’t think Ferrari planned to build a shedload of these because so much was unknown to them - first production PHEV, first production car above £500k etc. It is not too easy to ramp up production of some things, in particular anything to do with the hybrid system - battery, for instance.

    The general rule is you never make money on the first car, it is the follow-up where you can start to see a return. I don’t think this car will have a huge cycle and a high quantity of production. In this field there is so much risk for them, an updated or all-new car, based on the same basic technology will be planned quite quickly is my guess. Currently they are ahead of the competition but that won’t last long. I doubt very much they will ‘rest on their laurels’ and try and sweat the SF90 too long. Could be wrong, but there seems to be a number who say 2k total run is the plan, and I reckon they will have done those in 3 years. Just can’t see the demand lasting longer than that. That does make it a pretty rare car, even in Ferrari terms. But rarity equating to ‘highly valued’ is all about demand. A Lotus is pretty rare, but not highly valued. As to the long-term value of the SF90, no one can say yet. It will depend on how the look wears and how significant the car turns out to be. Perversely, the best cars in that sense, tend to be the ones that aren’t loved at launch. McLaren really struggled to sell even 100 F1s at the price they had to charge. I think it took them a few years. If you had a crystal ball back then, everyone of them would have been snapped up at launch.

    Hybrids are clearly going to be the near-term future of all the big exotic brands. If the look wears well and not too many are sold, this car could have good long-term prospects (I don’t mean doubling in value but perhaps not halving or quartering). I think Ferrari have put an extraordinary amount of effort into this one, and the press tests seem to back that up. The opposing view is that it might suffer from all the ‘early adopter’ problems (is the technology right? does it go out of date quickly? when it goes out of date will it seem old without seeming ‘classic’? etc.) Who knows?

    In the meantime, if you ordered one, best to plan to enjoy what looks to be a great car. If you didn’t, and you just don’t like it, fair enough. I did order one and loved the look from the start. I’m glad the press love it though, because without that I think it would be a very expensive car to hold. Ferrari must have known that too, hence the effort (and the delay, post launch, for them to get it absolutely right).
     
  23. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
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    Premium in Europe? I could order an SF90 from Northern European dealer at list today. My nearest dealer could probably get two allocations knowing them.
     
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  24. BarryK

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    It is possible that both of these are correct. As I have posted before my German dealer will take an order (with allocation) but cannot promise delivery date within 2 years. As with almost every new F-car, there are always a few people who can't wait and are willing to pay a premium to buy a slot. With the 812, back in 2017, two of my friends paid €60k to buy one of the early slots. Of course Ferrari released plenty more allocations through time and there was no difficulty ordering one after the initial period. They have been doing this for long enough to manage the supply to create the sense of "hard to get" but the reality is usually different.

    The real answer around how in demand the SF90 is will become clearer once there is a established secondary market. When you consider special series cars like almost new Pistas are below list and Pista spiders are almost at list price, it is hard to see a premium for this car which is a production car, albeit with a bigger price tag and therefore lower build numbers.

    If the SF90 build numbers are low because the production run is short due the high speed at which hybrid tech is changing, then the chances of there being a premium is even lower despite a smaller build numbers. People will want to move to the next version with better performance/weight/reliability, just like an iPhone.
     
  25. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

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    Yes probably correct. There are differences depending on what sales region you belong to. Ferrari Northern/West/East Europe have regional control over the whole supply chain. Not to mention a dealer in a large metropolitan city will be a much harder ask for a in-demand car rather than somewhere out of town or a smaller region with more chairs going around per person at the party.

    If I recall correctly I was told 812 was in short supply for a period in Europe due to the Asian market getting priority on the production line.
     
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