I don’t think it’s a matter of knowing how to do it, it’s the fact that a US dealer broke the rules for you. I believe you when you say it happened, but it’s pretty ballsy thing for the dealer to do.
There is no restriction on a dealer selling below MSRP. It happens. The only restriction is selling for more than MSRP.
This just hammered down at $556k yesterday Manheim Nashville. Getting closer!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login
I currently have a 488 Spider. If the SF90 coupe moves into the 300k range it's going to be very difficult for me to stay on the sidelines. We are getting closer every day.
I think you will find some low spec or high mileage right below $400k soon, but there is a cap on how much they can drop from here in the short term. It wouldn't make sense for these to be valued near a 296 gtb or f8 tributo. My guess is that they stay pretty close in value to both the 296 GTS and the f8 spider.
Had a conversation with a friend. One thing I haven't given thought to is long term ownership costs. How are we feeling about these batteries? I'm told the warranty for three years is $26k and Ferrari changes the battery at year 8 whether the car needs it or not. If that is going to be the norm, it makes a lot of sense as to why these things are tanking as the factory warranty nears expiration. Thoughts?
I have come to the conclusion that the battery is not a big of a risk as feared by some. First off in modern EVs, the batteries used are commercially available modern batteries. I would conclude the same is true in the 296 and SF90. Second, EV batteries (Tesla and Taycan) show 2% to 8% battery mileage erosion after 2-4 years of significant use (10K to 40K miles). Those cars have 250-400 mileage range to start. So let’s suppose it’s 8%. That sounds like a lot for a car with 250-400 miles of battery. A loss of 20-32 miles of charged range. The 8% erosion is what I found online as typical at 40K miles. (In fact, the usual I found is 4% for Tesla at 40K miles). But let’s use 5% for 10K miles and 8% at 40K miles so we are very conservative. With my own transporter machine tool known as the Taycan Turbo S, I have lost 4.8% after 12K miles of very spirited use with standard charging to 80%. So let’s use my example of ~5% than the quoted 2% I found online for Tesla at 10K miles. (it was actually 1%) But if the battery in the 296 or SF90 is meant to hold 15miles of driving, we are talking about a decrease to 13.8 miles that happens 40K miles later. At 10K miles, with 5%, this is 14.25 miles. Assuming the battery degradation occurs similarly. I seriously do not believe that the average 296 is going to be driven the amount of miles to have anything close to the 5%-8% degradation I mentioned above at 10K-40K miles. This is a tremendous amount of miles that I would guess is several standards of deviation from the average customers use. And that would be a decrease to ~14 miles. One could heavily discount it and say that the 296 battery system is heavily tuned for mega performance. Ok, then cut the 40K miles to 10K miles. That would be extreme. Then ~14 miles after 10K miles. Or even if there was a horrible 20% degradation, then the battery would be at 13 miles. That is beyond any observable decay in any modern EV. It is like the battery issue in an old MacBook with using the worst charging habits after 2-5 years of daily use and bad charging habits daily going continously on AC power to 100%. That’s usually at 500-1000+ full charge cycles. This is a worst case scenario in …that would get to 13 miles. Of course, not everything is a pro rata mappable situation. But it won’t be far off. I have to assume that Ferrari has been able to get extremely smart and experienced battery system teams involved. So a lot of the battery fear…will turn out to be just fear. Combined with the hybrid specific warranty, there is little risk. If there was big risk, there probably would not be an extendable hybrid battery warranty. Of course, I always appreciate your thoughts.
Is it a mileage thing or loss of power or the ability to power the e - motors? Is it possible that after certain use the batteries cannot power them as new so the car doesn't make as much power?
As I understand with modern EVs, it’s usually mileage degradation. Same power draw is available. Modern EVs have the issue of battery heating issues if you run them at max draw lap after lap after lap after lap. A couple of years ago, there were a couple of videos of Tesla performance level that would run out of a lot of available power after a couple of long, hard driven Nurburgring laps. It would be great to get someone who is a current auto EV battery expert in at this point of the dialogue. I know that @JTSE30 is well versed. Also there are plenty of YT videos online about battery degradation and miles and time. The excellent Engineering Explained channel has some. But there are some petrol head channels that explore the topic and are much more favorable than thought they would be. Some comments show 0% degradation after a 10Ks of miles. Too many to link to.
Also, I should add that my comments apply equally to all modern Ferrari hybrid cars like the SF90, not just the 296.
Your insights are duly noted. My.subsequent question would be how does the battery perform after sitting for long periods. We have cars sitting on dealer lots for months on end. Also when they are privately held they aren't being driven as a daily. We all can agree these cars are novelty items and most owners won't daily drive them. Would the sporatic use add another wrinkle in our calculus as to whether the battery is a ticking time bomb or not. If Ferrari is charging $30k for a warranty the assumption is they know something that we don't no?
Keeping it on the Ferrari charging system will automatically bring it down to a long-term maintainable charge. I have noticed that is 80% when I let my 296 sit for a month. This is an excellent video on state of the art EV and hybrid videos. We are many generations of battery past what was around 15-20 years ago in the first Ferrari hybrid (LaFerrari). Ferrari recently announced a new battery system for the LaFerrari. This time they make this system in-house with state of the art batteries and vertically integrate. Great video with info from real company with experience, not opinions: The Truth about EV Battery Life and Charging Best Practice ! | 4K
One thing that is true is that high acceleration needed means high power which means high current. Which means high heat. That affects battery chemistry and can degrade battery range. What I understand is that range will be degraded if the battery is usually being driven in an acceleration mode. Not occasionally, but usually. Now, the most important thing to do is have sophisticated cooling systems to cool each battery's heat. That can maintain battery health. The heat is the issue for battery health long term. An interesting data point is that F1 is moving to 50% ICE power and 50% electric power for the 2026 season. I am curious to see what types of systems are used for the electric power generation.
The 296 is moving down in parallel. Both hybrids haven't been as well received by the market despite the performance.
The hybrid mental barrier in dem cabeza! the 296 is an amazing amazing transportation emotive device!!
Do none of the Assetto Fiorano SF90s come with a front lift? I love the extra carbon fiber pieces, but no front lift is a no-go.
But it replaces the titanium springs with the NR sourced ones, Im sure they are good, but it seems a bummer to have to swap that out.
