SF90 vs. Tesla Roadster

Some how McLaren figured out how to emulate software...

https://tiremeetsroad.com/2017/12/19/no-mclaren-doesnt-need-a-90s-compaq-laptop-to-work-on-the-f1/

 

Your last sentence . No argument but really ? If Australia replaced every single car to EV free of charge. We would have more pollution period. How do we make electricity , brown coal. How do you guys make electricity ? Nuclear .

 

Yes, an emulator is nothing new and surprising it took them this long to do. The hard part is the hardware itself (in the car) to run an outdated DOS system.

Expect more standalone aftermarket ECUs and aftermarket wiring harnesses to keep modern cars going. Not OEM obviously, but at least available and not overly expensive.

 

Yes. They emulated software.

We are talking SPECIFICALLY about hardware. Remember? The whole MAKING of the parts.

Try to keep you sweet heart. I know you don't want to lose this battle so you are grasping at straws but it's just not going to work

 

You're the one making moronic statements about not being able to find batteries for old laptops lol

How about spending 2 seconds googling for a 2009 MacBook battery before spouting more nonsense?

 

So what? You can't jump from dirty to clean in one step. However, if you never switch to EV you'll always be dirty and eventually you'll just run out of fossil fuel.

Nuclear plant are dirty too at first, but you can't build clean infrastructure without dirty inputs. The payoff is the long game.

If you don't develop and perfect "dirty" EVs, you'll never have clean ones. One step at a time.

 

I am laughing at some of the shear ignorance on this thread. OEMs do not make subsytems. Tier suppliers do and they own the rights to them. They make tens of millions of ECUs/year. They could careless about discontinued parts they made for a single car that was produced 20 years ago and they only made a few thousand of them in the first place. As far as the space talk, well never mind. This is why you should not repeat anything you hear on the Internet especially around people that may do it for a living. FChat deserves better IMHO.

 

Outdated ECUs, or other various chips are not at all specific to Tesla or EVs in general. There are a ridiculous number of processors in even a generic Toyota Corolla let alone a regular Ferrari. 20 years down the road if they fail the same thing will be done as for any other part that fails in an old car. First you'll look for new old stock, then you'll look for good parts from a wreck, and finally someone will make a replacement. If its a prolific enough problem they get produced in masse, otherwise its going to cost a fortune to have one custom made. Its really no different than any other part. Obviously they're not going to spool up a fab just to reproduce a 30 year old chip. They'll use a modern one and emulate the old one (and probably improve it some while they're at it.)

As for the Tesla batteries, while the battery as a whole is custom and unique to Tesla, the cells are a standard format, and put out a standard voltage. Replacements for those cells will be available longer than any of us will be alive.

Tesla uses a very robust cell chemistry that only degrades about 1% every 50 full cycles. Assuming it is stored at reasonable temperatures it does not degrade significantly based on time alone. Therefore if Tesla hits its mileage target on the Roadster, it will still have a range of 600 miles even at 100k miles. Considering the low number of miles driven these cars will likely have, the battery life is going to be basically forever.

 

I would like to know the source of the figures re lifespan of an average car. My "stable" currently consists of a 20 year old Audi A4, a 16 year old Chevy Silverado, a 14 year old Ford F250, a 16 year old Honda Pilot and a 16 year old Lexus, none of which are anywhere near the end of its useful life much less being ready for the crusher. In my experience, today's cars, especially those from Japan, have a useful life of between 20 and 30 years.

I do agree, though, about it being a little silly for it to be necessary for a firm like Ferrari to produce an EV or hybrid. But, judging from the posts in this forum, there are folks ready to buy one. It's clear that there are a wide variety of tastes and interests when it comes to Ferraris.

 

Ok fine. Get me a battery for a 12 year old lap top. there. better?

You still can't argue the main point of every other point I made can you?

How about this... get my gen 1 iPad to go on youtube please. Thats just software... shouldn't be nearly as hard as getting an ecu made for a car.

 

don't turn this into an 'I hate tesla' thread. just make it a rimac instead.

I don't think these performance hybrids will have much staying power. just a stop gap until batteries get perfected. drawback of weight is impossible to overcome in a performance car. not issue in a commuter car where low center of gravity and all that torque make it responsive. but in a track car its just too heavy and too much cooling trouble.

I think p1, laf, 918, and now this stradale will be historical oddities at pebble beach in 2 generations.

 

yup but I would go with speciale instead of pista for the high rpm scream.

 

appears I looked a bit wrong, and the statistic I found was for average age of cars on the road, not how long they last.

However, seems per this link that around 15 years is still a good yard stick (I found the 8 year old one crazy, beer must've been involved).

https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/sustainability/average-vehicle-age/

 

Why are you comparing disposal consumer electronics that serve purely utility to antiques and collectibles?

iPads do not exist to fulfill emotional needs, they exist solely as tools and there is absolutely no reason you'd ever want an old iPads. They are designed to be thrown away and replaced. If they weren't, Apple would make them upgradeable just like a desktop PC.

Exotic cars are purely emotional and thus they will be supported just like any antique/vintage product. They derive value from being "original".

Are you trying to say that Ferrari will not support the electronics and batteries in the LF 30 years from now?

 

Because manufacturers already do not support cars.

It comes from experience.

So they don't do it on disposable electronics and they don't do it on cars right now.

Manufacturers do not make these components... vendors do. Manufactures are responsible for 10 years of parts supply. Thats it. The vendor will be on to making other things.... just like in the case of most ECUs from the 90s. Once they take a crap... its over... You either find a junk yard one... in the diablo case each ecu was 20k... so 40k... ohh and the kicker... no guarantee that they will work. This is actual real world experience.

You are right... cars derive their value from being original... so making something compatible isn't appealing and can hurt value. This is not helping your case.


correct, Ferrari may not support the batteries 30 years from now. Seeing as they are only responsible for 10...

And concerning value... if the cars are maintence nightmares... or hard to get parts for... perhaps... they don't climb in value because people prefer cars that can be driven and used and not tied to say a battery...

Was shopping for a Mclaren P1 for a friend... the car I was looking at got the Gen2 battery already done... thank goodness because the bill was just shy of 240k dollars .... car had less than 1k miles which likely attributed to the problem to begin with... but those cars had issues with the batteries regardless.

If you don't think this is going to complicate things... your nutz

 

Ok just stop. Please just stop. You're clearly not a tech guy. Id venture to say more than a few here are pretty technically astute and likely leaders in the tech space. Some "Desktop PCs" up-gradable to accommodate a market market need for configuration and interchangeable parts. The gamer may want a better video card, the designer may want gobs of memory and faster/more processors, some folks need more storage, others need less. These machines are not manufactured for longevity, they are manufactured to be customizable for the marketplace. Equating a Ferrari or any other exotic to this marketplace demonstrates a lack of understanding of computer hardware and its consumer base. Both exotics and mainstream automobiles use specialized ECU's. I cannot simply take the Mopar ECU out of my Ram pickup and plug it into the wiring harness on my 720s and watch all the screens come to life. At the same token, taking the ECU out of the 2019 ram and put it into an older 2015 will likely yield horrific results. Manufactures do not care if a car is "emotional" or not -its all disposable. Keep the parts available for 10 years and youre on your own. The computer manufacturers know that Moore's law is just as relevant in 2019 as it was in 1965. Those same processors make it to automobiles. The hardware manufactured is built for a specific use case and produced until it is no longer needed and technology moves on. Ferrari may be able to offer replacement parts if they stock up on an ungodly amount of hardware. We all know this wont happen. It doesnt matter if you have an example of an "upgradeable" desktop PC. Try putting modern components in that PC. Wont work.

 

You really can't seem to comprehend the difference between:

A) Consumer electronics that have no expectation of longevity and even likely built-in obsolescence
B) "Normal" cars that have no expectation of longevity
C) Ferraris that are collectible

There is no significant technical hurdle to keeping modern exotic cars running from an electronics standpoint. It's like you guys have no concept of how portable code is or how emulation works. Ferrari knows what they're doing and they know what their suppliers are doing. They don't just throw out their code and they aren't oblivious to the idea that Ferraris are collectible and people will want to maintain them for long periods of time. Ferrari in 2020 is well aware that they will likely need/want to support cars for longer. It wasn't that long ago that today's multimillion dollar cars were actually intended to just be scrapped once they ran their course. Rare stuff becomes rare because it was never intended to survive when it was first created.

This is just a stupid conversation. There is no basis for the claims that Ferrari hybrids/EVs will lose support and be any more relegated to the scrap yard than any other modern Ferrari. Using your logic, the Enzo is doomed for the scrap yard because it's ECU/ECM components will eventually Ferrari with an IC is doomed. Every Ferrari with a uniquely shaped dash display is doomed.

 

Speaking of hybrid vs pure EV, this pure EV sure seems fast. 6:05 and it didn't even have a very high top speed.

 

If it were a hybrid though it would have been a lot quicker, as proven by the 919 Evo.

 

Notable that the top speed continues to drop through the course of the track. On the long straight at the end, he was 15 kph off the top speed with a fresh battery.

 

I'd take the roadster and keep my 488 and model S.

 

The program you referenced about restoring cars have been mostly Enzo Era cars. The high cost of restoration justified by the high worth of said cars.
Many Ferrari is 'expensive' but not collectible per se.' I don't think anybody is saying a particular segment of Ferrari will be relegated to the scrap yard, just that many may become harder and more expensive to maintain as complexity increases. As a consequence, fall out of favor or value.
The more electronics a car has, the harder it is to fix/find a replacement once these cars have entered their 'classic' years. It's not an either/or but a gradation.
While today's cars can run circles around older cars, being able to wrench on them without computers, specialized equipment, or advance knowledge has been of enormous equity as far as I've seen.

 

For us it will be a very long time. Think of it this way at least America has somewhere to ship oil. Word is we wont even get particle filters until 2030

 

Very well written and from experience which is more than most can say.
I agree with you, the ignorant responses are somewhat perplexing.

I don’t care if your name is Sergio or Elon, I respect brilliant cars equally without the weight of the man or company.