355 - Share a photo of a snap/broken timing belt | Page 2 | FerrariChat

355 Share a photo of a snap/broken timing belt

Discussion in '348/355' started by fiorano10, Dec 22, 2019.

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  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Thankfully I did a premature major on my F355. The previous owner on my car didn't fit the belt covers properly when he did his own major. Somehow it was chewing up the belts. The covers were filled with fine shredded pieces of belt. Sorry, no pics. Of course you could say less belt changes, less chance of careless amateurs and for that matter, careless professionals, getting their hands on these cars.
     
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  2. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
    To post number 24.
    You can believe what you want, for you the belts are 75 years old.
    For your piece of mind, the car is not for sale, and will stay this way for life.
    Go and own something else

    Guys, I appreciate all your comments.
    All I wanted to know if there are photos out there shows on naturally timing belts that snapped. Excluding mechanics errors, 360, or any other model.

    Thanks for your help.
    Happy holiday.



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    97 Spider likes this.
  3. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    This will not satisfy the request for a pic of a broken belt on a 355 - or even a Ferrari - but in the past 3 weeks, I've seen 2 broken timing belts on Hondas; the timing tensioner bolt snapped due to re-use fatigue. Both vehicles are scheduled to receive replacement engines... less expense than a 355, but still more expensive than a set of new tires.

    I've no photos, as broken engine parts are a normal part of my day and I don't pull out a camera to document them.
     
  4. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
    #26,
    I am very sorry for what happened to your car.
    For me I had a luxury to see the process of the timing belt and other crucial part replacement step by step. This is the only way I let a mechanic work on my car with my final verification of the work.





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  5. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Dec 15, 2012
    2,241
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Brian
    I bought this engine from him and I can tell you exactly what failed. The bearing on one of the cam belt drive pulleys failed and went crooked. The belt must have actually held on until shutdown and amazingly when I tore the engine down it had no bent valves or marks on the pistons. It was very surprising.
     
  6. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
  7. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Apr 12, 2017
    7,676
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Steve D.
    There's been a couple cases of the "shoes" on 348's like that.

    sjd
     
  8. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2010
    1,683
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    Rob
    Belts just don’t “snap!” It is generally a failure of another component related to belt tension, cam lubrication or other failure. Airplanes and cars are not the same and the risk at flight level is waaaaaaaayyy greater than automobiles. You have icing issues, RPM load issues, complicated lubrications and ignition and fueling systems that deal with altitude, a lot. A/P’s are super smart and deal with literal life and death.

    The idea of pulling an engine to prevent premature failure is ridiculous and part of the mystic. It just is. Valve guides and exhaust are poor product development or typical Italian discount material. I have climbed around just about every car made. Like most of you. The quality of a Ferrari is not the best, just is not. It is exotic, beautiful, glorious in sound and sings to nearly 9k and is track ready to perform, if doing that, then greater maintenance is warranted.

    Everyone on here can argue any point they want, for or against, to the top of the mountains and the bottom of the sea. In the end, HUMAN ERROR causes 97% of the failure, even in the aircraft world. There was a certain “porpoise aviation” in Sarasota Florida that sold inferior aircraft parts at one time for great profit, that is an extreme case of human error over profit. Ferrari maintenance tends to be extreme service for profit. Heck there is another thread about a car for sale, with nearly $80k I receipts all done poorly - Human Error.

    It is so funny what we attach ourselves to.... but hey the Beatles suck, Scorsese is a terrible director and Porsche is better than Ferrari ;-)

    If and when I buy another 355 or gasp a 360, I want to find one with hardly any mechanics “tracks” or pretty original and just drive it. That will be a rare bird.


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  9. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
    Agree,
    However I think the 355 can be improve on the long run with upgrade of parts.
    In my experience owning 2 , 355 up to now the Cats in this car contribute to failure of parts, like manifold and valves, and more
    I believe by not having cats on the car the car can become much more reliable.


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  10. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
    Here is my question to you,
    5000 miles on the belt/ bearings with 10 plus years, no leak of oil in any of the cam seals, and gaskets , bone dry.
    Runs with no issue.
    Drop engine for major service?
    Thanks
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  11. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2010
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    Rob
    Not me. Got a good inspection. Pics look good. Drive and enjoy. If it changes, hear a noise or oil leak, pull it.


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  12. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
    This is what I was thinking also.
    this car is running on straight pipe, and tubi exhaust.
    I have no issue with the stock manifolds, and was thinking one day upgrade to tubi manifolds that will pick up an additional 10 HP and more free flow,
    Again, I dont know if it's worth doing it!!!???
    This 355 is a very special and rare car, and I intend of keeping it for life time.
    Thank you for sharing your opinion.


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  13. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
  14. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
    10,629
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    John Kreskovsky
    Instead of posting nonsense and arguing about how long belts last or BS dropping the gas tank instead of doing it right, how about learning something?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    PDF #1: all references to improper handling or improper installation - Human Error.

    “Long periods of extended use” was another sentence in first few paragraphs.

    A belt snapping or failing is that 1-4% manufacture defect. Ultra rare.

    I could not get PDF two to open, but I am sure it is much of the same. Volvo belts break, Honda belts break and hell, I bet 1 or 2 Ferrari belts break. The Volvo and Honda’s, years of abuse or neglect, high mileage or improper installation. I redid a 5 cylinder Volvo (twice!) After Valve damage. Cause of error $3 bolt that in the manual said nothing about reuse. But alas, lots of reading and research after second after finding bolt broken on tensioner, we learned we were not the only ones with this failure. Volvo updated manual afterwards to recommend that bolt be replaced. Car has 106k miles and abused.

    No one wins these arguments. The PDF’s are if not help. Only state the obvious. Parts do fail. Greatest creator still has not built a perfect human body that last forever. What’s makes us think cars are any better. But one guy/gal can smoke and drink every day and die at 100. A perfect athlete can drop dead of heart attack at 25. There are no definitive answers.

    If it ain’t broke, don’t “fix” it and keep the human hands away from it. We are really good a fixing broken things. We are not so good a preventative maintenance, tends to bite us in the ass. Lots of stories in all walks of life about that. Ask the guy with the poorly packed parachute. Cheers!



    Edit: got second PDF to open. I love section 3.1 .... aka Human error.

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  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    I have no problem opening pdf2. And I think it is of great interest. In summary, it tests a bely over time and shows the development of wear leading to failure in an otherwise mechanically sound system. Mechanical failures we can not foresee. But based on the work in the 2nd PDF is apparent that the visual condition of the belt says a lot about its physical condition. Here is the relevant figure show how the belts wear overt time. a is a new belt. b, c, d, and e show the progression of wear. Frankly, I've never seen a belt that came off a Ferrari that looked like any or those but a. I had a belt fail on my 308 due to which was attributed to either a drive pulley bearing failure of some other factor that caused the belt to ride up on the pulley fence and get cut. The belt was on the car many years longer than recommended and if not for being cut down, it otherwise looked as new, as did the other belt which didn't fail. From hanging around here for a long time, belt failures reported seem to pretty much always be due to other mechanical issues and are actually pretty rare.

    The problem with "long periods of extended use" is defining what is a long period. When the belts come off the car and look new, it's hard to say they were subject to a long period of extended use if you look at the second paper.

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  17. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Here is an example. One belt is new. The other was in service for 25 years, 27,000 miles. There is nothing that looks remotely like even figure 6-b, above. (Incidentally, the tensioner bearing that came off that car were also in good condition. No leaking seals, no roughness or grinding with rotation. They rotated smoothly and without excessive drag.)

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  18. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    They look great! Kind of reinforces the idea that belt failure in and of its self is almost impossible and most likely caused by other influence. Age is almost irrelevant to failure unless induced by outside forces.

    Note I did get second PDF opened and noted it in my earlier post.

    Merry Christmas. Turning this thread on mute :)


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  19. spaghetti_jet

    spaghetti_jet Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2005
    846
    Europa
    Full Name:
    Bob

    Changing the belts by dropping the tank on the 355 has been discussed many times going back at least 10 or 15 years.

    if you do drop the tank then good luck getting the crank pulley off - there is a cross member right in front of it...
     
  20. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    You have to free the motor and jack up the front of the motor quite a bit by also lowering the rear to clear the pulley. You essentially have to unbolt the motor and hoses and shock towers and subframe anyhow.
     
  21. emac

    emac Formula Junior
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    Sep 14, 2014
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    ernest
  22. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
    We are not arguing here, this is just a study or sharing opinions ,nothing personal.
    There is no competition here of who is a smarter person.
    Thank you.

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  23. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2005
    407
    The reason you're not seeing a lot of broken belts ....is because most people are actually changing them between 5-7 years.
    In other words, most people are actually getting their car properly serviced.

    Your belt is 14 years old though. That's beyond ....far beyond.
     
  24. fiorano10

    fiorano10 Karting

    Sep 29, 2004
    111
    los angeles
  25. jferrante

    jferrante Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2016
    498
    I would argue that if someone's belt snapped due to lack of maintenance time schedule that they'd be hesitant to post it here.

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