Shift Shaft Seal questions | FerrariChat

Shift Shaft Seal questions

Discussion in '308/328' started by tobygaff, Jan 11, 2025.

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  1. tobygaff

    tobygaff Karting

    Dec 5, 2010
    198
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Hi guys. I have read the other threads, and think I have a pretty good idea of what's going on, but wanted to ask a few questions before I screwed something up and regret it later.

    My car is a 1984 308 GTS QV Euro model

    1. For the 2 seal retaining washers (Figure 19 on the diagram below) Those are just peened into place right? I just need to unpeen them to remove them?

    2. For the seals (Figure 5 on the diagram) The seal kit that I bought came with the cup type seals (p/n: 115372) as well as the O-ring type seals (P/N: 105558) This diagram only shows p/n: 115372 at location 5. Can I safely assume that the O-Rings (105558) are not used for my model, or is there something that I am missing?

    Thanks for your help.

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  2. Dockboy

    Dockboy Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 11, 2013
    602
    Maryland
    No need to remove the swaged in backing washer.

    By "cup" washer, do you mean X washer?
    Where did you buy your seal kit?
     
    waymar and Steve Magnusson like this.
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,799
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, Jan 11, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2025
    +1 -- no need (nor reason) to remove the swaged in washer. The o-ring or Verell's X seal, I believe can all be deformed into the groove with the washer in place (when the shaft isn't there). Not totally sure about the F "updated" seal 115372, but I'd try deforming it in, or use the o-ring, rather than removing the swaged in washer - JMO:

    https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/part/ferrari/115372?id=57715
     
    waymar likes this.
  4. tobygaff

    tobygaff Karting

    Dec 5, 2010
    198
    Fort Wayne, IN
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,799
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    How "flexible" is the 115372 seal? Can it be deformed into the existing groove (like the o-ring) without removing the swaged in washer?
     
  6. tobygaff

    tobygaff Karting

    Dec 5, 2010
    198
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Probably. I just didn’t know if it would affect the integrity of the seal.
     
  7. Dockboy

    Dockboy Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 11, 2013
    602
    Maryland
  8. Dockboy

    Dockboy Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 11, 2013
    602
    Maryland
    The more i think about this, the more I think they just sent you both types of factory seals. When you pull the old ones out, replace with the same kind!

    Call AWItailian and ask! They are good people.
     
    26street and waymar like this.
  9. tobygaff

    tobygaff Karting

    Dec 5, 2010
    198
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Thank you. That is what I thought when I first saw the kit, but then when I got into the car, I saw the ones that are in there now do not have the o-ring, and the parts diagram didn't show the o-ring so that is when I started questioning it.

    I looked at the parts diagrams for the older 308s, and they call for the 105558 part number. I agree, I think they just sent both.

    On a side note, I did try to order Verrel's x-rings as well, but do not have them yet. I am assuming that they will work in any of them, and may be a better seal.
     
  10. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,668
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    You can make the shaft's end a bit more angled so it will not push the seal out of that hole.
     
  11. tobygaff

    tobygaff Karting

    Dec 5, 2010
    198
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Good tip. Thanks.
     
  12. bitsobrits

    bitsobrits Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2011
    740
    Omaha, NE area, US
    Full Name:
    Steve
    X rings type seals can be sourced from McMaster Carr and other industrial suppliers. The trick is to figure out the correct sizing. I believe someone on this forum has posted generic size requirements and specific supplier part numbers.
     
  13. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    389
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
  14. Brooklands

    Brooklands Karting

    Aug 4, 2014
    112
    North Vancouver, BC
    Full Name:
    Phil Delory
    I used the cup style seal from AW. Squeezed in just fine without removing the washers. Note the cup needs to face the correct direction.
     
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  15. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    4,187
    Canada
    I don't think there is a "correct" direction for the cup seals, either way apparently works as I recall from an old thread. But what direction did you do with your seals?
     
  16. BLACK HORSE

    BLACK HORSE Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2004
    1,961
    California - Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Yeah replacing these seals is a HUGE pain-in-the-butt and frustrating, yeah to push out the shifter rod, you will need to undo the front engine bolts and jack up the engine approx 1/2" inch, just enough to slide out the rod. Just take your time doing this job.
     
  17. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2009
    1,696
    San Diego
    Toby - get the ridged / quad seal seals. they're just better. mcmaster carr or from Verell - http://www.unobtaniumsupply.com/ . You need 2.

    While you are in there consider getting an oil baffle from the standard suppliers - ferrparts or superformance. it prevents oil starvation on hard rights.

    Use these links as your instructions: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/308-qv-shift-shaft-seal.574528/
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/shifter-shaft-seal-revisited.129690/

    While you are there replace the "silent blocks" what is essentially the bushing on the shift shaft rod you are removing - this will tighten any play in your shifter. All you need is a vice and the right size socket to change this. Again, Verell's Unobtanium (one of our dedicated cottage parts guys) makes delrin versions that are stronger and longer lasting. Buy 2 so you can do the front "silent block" on the actual shifter mechanism in the cab and store it for a good future winter project - Here's a link to that project: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/shift-assembly-r-r-with-shift-linkage-bushing-r-r.238663/

    When removing the trans pan - everyone says watch for the springs and balls - DO THIS!!!! take pics. lower the pan level and slowly. I individually bagged and tagged the front middle and rear springs to not mess them up. Many would say use nyloc nuts when replacing the pans. get your gaskets. watch out and do not over tighten the nuts - look it up but its a low number. Same as on the bolt on the shifting fork on the shaft - when re tightening, it will probably have oil so a torque wrench might not sense friction properly - hand wrench tight but don't over do it.

    Good Luck Man!!!

    BTW all Fchatter's - Toby's a solid dude!
     
    M.James and mixedgas like this.
  18. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    I installed the Unobtanium seals. There is only one seal, maybe they sent you the original o-ring type seals in case you give up trying to fit the newer type :)
    They can be tricky to get in. I found I had to grind a little bit of a taper lead in onto the shaft so it would go in after the new seal was installed. Otherwise it would tear the new seal.
     
  19. ChevyDave

    ChevyDave Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2019
    411
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Full Name:
    Dave W
    +1,000
    I had known about the famous oil starvation issue ever since Road and Track wrote about it back in the '70's, but that knowledge did not prepare me for just how susceptible the 308 is to this issue. It only happened to me once - and it was on public roads with my daughter in the car, so not anywhere near a 10/10ths situation - but given the cost to overhaul a Ferrari V-8 that was enough. And this after ownership of numerous "lesser" sports cars - some with transverse engines as well - which I thrashed to within an inch of their life and never had oil starvation issues. It is literally one of the things that motivated me to seek out a dry sump car.
    Were I keeping my QV, installing an oil pan baffle would be at the top of my list of projects.
    - Dave
     
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  20. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2009
    1,696
    San Diego
    There should be two seals - one on the entry of the shaft into the engine sump and a second seal between the sump and the gear box. However I am unsure about the dry sump configuration.

    advise on installation is to first lube the seals in oil, lube the shaft in oil, lead with a socket that ever so slightly smaller in diameter to the shaft so it grabs the seals to the direction as it "steps up" to the shaft diameter. This should prevent tearing on installation.
     

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