shift shaft | FerrariChat

shift shaft

Discussion in '206/246' started by possum, Jan 1, 2009.

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  1. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
    Full Name:
    johnno
    Spot of oil on the garage floor,motor has been rebuilt leak coming from the chrome selector shaft into gear box is there a seal in there somewhere that could be the problem?
     
  2. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Sorry for the delay in responding to this question. I wanted to get the parts book out to be sure of an accurate reply.

    The shift rod that enters the engine/transmission has an o-ring that seals engine oil from leaking. If I recall correctly, the shift rod enters the engine oil sump and is sealed on with an o-ring. It then traverses the oil sump to reach the transmission. In addition, there is a second o-ring as it leaves the engine oil sump and enters the transmission.

    Hence, to correct this leak, one would have to remove the shift rod as it sits in the engine and refresh the o-rings, which sit in a groove on the sliding rod. The obious approach would be to do this with the engine out of the car and separated from the transmission.

    However, it may be possible to remove the lower transmission plate, and disconnect the shift rod from the fork control mechanism. This would allow the shift rod to be slid forward and out of the transmission and engine sump. The only problem is that I do not know if there is sufficient clearance to the firewall to allow the rod to find its way out of the engine/transmission.

    It may not be necessary to fully remove the rod. If I am correct, then a new o-ring could be slipped over the free-end of the rod when it is slid forward to expose the o-ring.

    Has anyone else experience with this issue?

    Jim S.
     
  3. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
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    johnno
    Thanks Jim,hopefully the easy option is possible pain in the neck for a simple o ring could be a lot worse I guess,at least now I have some direction.
     
  4. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
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    johnno
    Jim,just checking parts book after your info,TAV22 item22 this area is dry it is leaking around o ring 24 where shaft 14 enters rod 18 any clearer?
     
  5. ENZOSON

    ENZOSON Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2004
    660
    Erie, Colorado
    Full Name:
    PIETRO
    Depending on the year there might be one or 2 o-rings - (early cars had 1). Also there is a tube that traverses teh engine sump to prevent the 2 oils from combining in the event of an oring failure... 308's / 328's did not have this "feature" as I recall.

    Pietro
     
  6. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Pietro - I believe that you are correct. It is difficult to tell from the parts diagram, but my memory of having things apart is that there was a tube traversing the oil sump to house the shift rod.

    Possum - I will inquire with a friend on Monday concerning whether the o-ring can be changed without removing the engine. My fear is that it cannot, but perhaps there is a trick.

    Jim S.
     
  7. ENZOSON

    ENZOSON Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2004
    660
    Erie, Colorado
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    PIETRO
    Jim -

    I think the o-ring can be replaced w/o removing the engine - The shift shaft needs to be disconnected. Access is through the gbox pan (which can be removed - needs a new gasket of course). The shift shaft should then pull out from the front (where the leak is).

    Pietro
     
  8. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
    Full Name:
    johnno
    My model is 1973gt Im getting some good advice from you guys and its sounding positive and getting cheaper,re may not have to pull engine.
     
  9. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
    Full Name:
    johnno
    Taking my dino for rego check,everthing was going great until i lost all gears managed to get it home stuck in 4th or 5th gear,the selector gear is flopping around in the gate but seems to be sliding in and out ok,my question before i go any further is could it be that the shaft has come adrift in the gear box and could be an easy fix or could it be worse.I had a new seal put on the shaft a year ago possible they may not have tightened it up properly.
     
  10. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,641
    Toronto / SoCal
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    Rob C.
    You almost certainly had the shifter adjustment mechanism come lose. This is all external and is easily fixed. In the 308 section there are tons of how to threads with images that walk you through the procedure. The 308 and 246 are the same in this respect so the information is transferable.
     
  11. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
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    johnno
    Taken the sump off,there is no connection between the fork on the end of the shaft and the internals it seems that although it does not appear loose could the fork on the shaft slipped,there is a bolt to hold the fork in place, there is no bits of metal any where thank god.
     
  12. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
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    johnno
    Went and looked up Gear linkage and selector forks by daviekj,great pictures and confirmed what I thought,the picture marked N shows the forks engaged,(in neutral) my shaft fork is about 11 oclock and not engaged at all,if I can undo the bolt holding the fork on the selector shaft and position it as in the photo could this be an easy fix or am I kidding myself?
     
  13. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,641
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    Rob C.
    The adjustment is done EXTERNALLY from the gearbox not by indexing the internals. Right where the shift shaft enters the gearbox (likely covered by a long rubber boot) is the adjustment mechanism. If you have the sump off it will be much easier to see what you are doing but again I urge you to look at the 308 section as there are dozens of threads on this subject.
     
  14. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
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    johnno
    #14 possum, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    Thanks for your advise Rob,the shop I was taking the Dino too for a rego check is owned by a friend of mine and said he would pop around and have a look and see if he could help me out,he spends most of his spare time preparing his race cars so I was fortunate for some of his precious time.I had come to the conclusion that the adjustment area you did mention was probably not tightened up properly last time and this is where the problem is,Once under the car, it was on stands so not much room I pointed out that the shaft mechanism was way off making contact with the forks,I showed him where the adjust area on the shaft was and a voice rang out have you got a 17mm and a 19mm spanner,put it in neautral, a bit of moaning and groaning mainly from the uncomfortable position he had to work in no hoist at my abode, run through the gears hold it there a bit more adjustment and all done. Well worth a cup of coffee and a tim tam. Through that great read in the 308 section I even made up my own device to hold the springs and bearings in place,out of a piece of timber did the trick.Will post some pics later.
     
  15. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,425
    Puslinch,ON
    Full Name:
    Jamie
    Tim Tam's..Mmmmmmmmmm

    cant get them here in the Frozen North..sigh
     
  16. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    If the car is apart in its entirety, would it be logical to go through this exercise with the shifter and transmission out of the car, and carry out any necessary adjustments, as much simpler in this manner (I think), and with the transmission upside down while being able to observe all components shifting through the gears, in a much more comfortable position?

    As '100% of mechanicals' in my car came disassembled, I think it makes sense, but I would love to hear from the experts.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  17. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
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    johnno
    Alberto go to the 308 section as rob advised me to,put in removal and installatin of engine by daviekj 1/11/2009 great info especially where he mentions that the drive shaft rotates when out of the car and causes problems,good info for you if your engine is out.
     
  18. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #18 swift53, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    Thank you Johnno, tried the search feature, but cannot find it, completely useless (me). Can you post the link? Thank you!

    Regards, Alberto

    PS only one I could find was this one: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226569
     
  19. daviekj

    daviekj Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2008
    486
    UK
    Yes that's the thread. Gear settings stars bottom page 3. Kevin
     
  20. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    Thank you Kevin, great post, and extremely clear procedures!
    The whole installation process will be very useful, back and forth.
    I am not even close, but next year, it gets done.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  21. possum

    possum Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    307
    australia
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    johnno
    Daviekj beat me to it page 3 is where its all happening,thanks to daviekj for a great post.
     

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