Shifting procedure, lift pedal or not

You will have people telling you both ways, I say don’t lift, and the best way to save clutch life is to put in neutral coming to stop at lights. You will save 3-4 clutch actuations every light and that adds up, just 10 lights per trip could be 40 actuations saved. When doing this I always put it back in 1st so I don’t forget when the light turns green and rev rather than go… and as pointed out in other posts sitting in1st vs N is no different on the bearing since the bearing is engaged in N also… so might as well sit in 1 and be ready to go.

 

I don't know the programming of the TCU but from what I have been told/read/researched, when you lift, the TCU is thinking you are going to slow down so it reacts differently than if under acceleration, be it fast or normal. For this reason, I don't lift. I don't need to give the TCU anything too complicated to deal with. Also, pretty sure the manual says not to lift when upshifting.

 

The system isn't designed to have the driver lift off of the throttle - it would be a half-finished system if that was the case

 

Keep you foot pinned and enjoy

 

I had a 2000 3660 F1 and did not lift for up or down shifting - Frankly, the trans was sloppy/jerky enough without adding more things for the TCU to try to understand - was much smoother not lifting IMHO. As far as stop lights I put it in neutral simply because that is what I do/have always done with my manual cars so the "process" was the same - As posted earlier my understanding is that it does not really matter much from a clutch consumption standpoint but just my preference.

Cheers

 

In my Maserati 4200 with the same gearbox it definitely helps to slightly lift your foot when shifting during normal driving. It makes the shift smoother. In my f430 it doesn't really matter because the software is better and already tries to smooth out the shifts.
In a 355 you have to play a lot with your foot. No rev matching, no blips etc. So it really depends on the TCU and software. I guess on the 360 the behaviour is somewhat similar to the Maserati coupe/4200.

 

I can opine from experience with my 575, where I've cracked the code and passengers can barely detect shifts. I lift ever-so-slightly when I'm in the "puttering around" to "semi-aggressive acceleration" range, which is where I spend 95% of my driving. For context, aggressive would be full throttle, which happens rarely. Guessing this is pretty consistent with most of us.

It may sound obvious, but the ECUs can't anticipate an upcoming shift - the pump only actuates when asked to do so by a paddle. That said, the driver DOES know when a shift is upcoming, and I suspect a lot of freshman F1 drivers who are A/B testing Lift vs No Lift end up lifting too early - a fraction of a second before pulling the paddle. So there's a disconnect between man and machine, possibly subliminally. The result is an upshift when the car thinks you're starting to decelerate... and, of course, a less-than-smooth shift. The lift should actually occur just as the paddle is pulled so the deceleration of RPMs occurs during actuation, not before. It's also barely a lift - just enough to ensure the revs don't increase during actuation, which is really easily managed with the fly-by-wire. Being aware of this really makes a difference (it becomes second nature though).

I wouldn't be surprised if a large group tested lifting with improper order-of-operations and now fall into the "don't lift" category.

 

FYI the F1 TCU works with the engine ECUs which operate in a specific operating mode for F1 equipped cars. The two ECUs work in tandem to handle ignition cut, torque demand etc. It is not a gear change working in isolation from the engine side of things: they are linked and programmed in the way that Ferrari deemed optimal.

The F1 TCU also works with the suspension module on the F430 to temporarily increase rear suspension settings in order to keep the car flat during the gear change.

 

This is the first time I've read this explained that way. What you're saying makes sense -- that if you shift to N early when you know you're going to stop, you might save the 4-3, 3-2, and/or 2-1 downshift. But I always thought this subject meant that you shouldn't sit at a red light for a long period with the car in 1st. So that after coming to a stop (with the car doing its normal downshifts), you would then put it in neutral while sitting there. Some red lights can last 2-3 minutes, so I can see the benefit of that, if sitting in 1st is bad in some way.

Is that not the case? Is it a waste to go to N and back to 1 when the light turns green? I believe the manual says somewhere that the car will go to N by itself if sitting too long in 1st (several minutes) -- there must be some reason for that. Part of me is always nervous it won't go to 1st when the light turns green, because it happened once, of course at a busy intersection. Luckily it worked on the 3rd pull of the paddle, but that stays at the back of my mind ever since.

 

Yes, understood and aware of the integration among the various ECUs. My point is this: at the end of the day, driver timing of shift request and throttle lift can be misaligned beyond what the car can compensate for, and at a threshold that is easier to cross than many may be aware of in practice.

 

It is not bad to sit in 1st for any length of time verses neutral, the way the F1 system works is that the throwout bearing is engaged even in neutral, so there is no difference between sitting in 1st or N at a stop light. I prefer 1st so I'm ready to go. And yes as you stated, the idea is that you are saving all of the downshifts to get stopped, as it hits every gear on the way down. For me when the light turns yellow/red and I know I'm stopping I go to neutral and coast to a stop then into 1st. I don't do it all of the time because sometimes its nice to hear the downshifting, but I do it when I'm wanting to conserve the clutch.

It will only go into neutral by itself if you don't have the brake pedal fully pressed in. So basically if the car senses its sitting in 1st with the brake off it will automatically shift itself into neutral... but if you have the brake pressed in it will not shift out of 1st.

 

Very well said. This is literally exactly how I do it. And I don't lift on shifts. Even manual says not to lift iirc!

 

If you sit stopped long enough (varies with model) in 1st gear, the TCU will shift to neutral. Fairly long time until that happens.

I am a coast to a stop in neutral driver because that is the way I drive 3 pedal cars. If you drive your F1 like a three pedal with one pedal missing, you will enjoy it the most, regardless of whether you are a coast or downshift to stop driver. There are also differences between a 575M and 360 for driving. On the V12, you definitely can smooth shifts with lifting/feathering the throttle on upshifts at lower revs, especially in lower gears. On 360s, engine deceleration is different because of lower inertia, so with no experience on one (14 years of 575M F1 experience), not sure how they respond to lifting. Only way to tell is try both ways. If you cannot shift more smoothly with your F1 Ferrari than with a 3 pedal, you are doing it wrong.

 

Thanks for this. The "put an F1 in N at red lights" is such a popular practice, I never questioned it too much and have been doing so in my 1 year of ownership. Since your comments, I took a deep dive into old threads about it, and while there are many opinions and comments out there, this post from "TheMayor" was by far the most compelling argument:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f430-shift-into-neutral-or-keep-it-in-gear-while-standing.298383/#post-139922340

 

Makes no difference which way you do it as long as you understand how the system works and why you are doing it that way.

 

I have had a problem with lifting while shifting. I treated this car just like a manual when I got it and would lift off the accelerator while shifting. This provided a smooth shift for a long time. However after a couple of years it started to completely miss sixth gear. After an F1 relearn was performed it’s been perfect and never missed again.

My theory is the computer always thinks the throttle is being pressed during the shifts so when you lift between shifts it starts to readjust it’s a parameters over time. This eventually leading to my sixth gear constantly being missed then a lock out of all gears.

My clutch life only reduced by 4% over the past 3.5 years so that’s good. However I may risk some clutch life to not be on the highway and have zero gears to go into. Since the relearn almost a year ago I have kept my foot on throttle during shifts and have had zero problems.


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The manual says to keep your foot on the gas when shifting.

 

2003 F360:
I lift ever so slightly off of the accelerator when driving "leisurely" and seem to feel less slippage and a smooth shift. It took me awhile to get it just right (because I mean lift ever so slightly) but now I do it without even thinking.
Of course with the pedal pegged, it stay pegged. I list my year car because it has the latest TCU. Earlier cars; this may not work to any advantage.

 

Over how many miles? If you answer 5K miles, I'd be impressed!

 

Don't lift! I also pull to N and coast to stop lights. Typically sit in N.

My mechanic also advised that the large majority of clutch wear in these cars comes from Reverse maneuvers. The car slips the clutch as not to jerk you into an object behind you. Avoid multi-point reverse turns and definitely avoid reversing up any inclines.

 

The car slips the clutch because reverse is such a high gear in a 360. Sort of like starting in 2nd. The clutch locks up in reverse just like in any other gear if you are in reverse long enough. Find a nice downhill parking lot and prove it to yourself.

 

Drive the F430 however you like. I often did the F1 in auto with a cup a coffee in the other hand. Just stay away from reversing up any inclines.

There is enough stress in life that one should not fret about shifting in or out of N or do so if that makes you more connected.