shims for camber adjustment in 458

Camber will certainly affect the tire usage and will have an effect on handling. Generally, increasing negative camber is done to help the outer tire have a larger contact patch in a turn. The idea being that under lateral load, the outside tire will tend to wear on the out side edge. Increasing negative camber counters this, but now the tire is riding on the inside edge and will wear that out faster if not loaded.

On a car that is driven hard (i.e. tracked), increasing negative camber will even out tire wear. On a street car that spends more of it's time unloaded (going straight), increasing negative camber beyond optimum will result in uneven tire wear. Also, you are sacrificing straight line contact patch for cornering contact patch; you have to decide if your driving style merits that.

As I was progressing in run groups (beginner to instructor), I had to add more and more negative camber to my car just to keep the wear patterns even. This makes sense, as you go faster you load the tire more and more. Actually, tire wear and gas usage (lower mpg is better) are as reliable as a stopwatch to gauge driver progress.

I don't know that you would visually see .5 degree of additional camber. If you feel you want to do something to the alignment, a precision alignment by a race shop would probably improve the car as most production cars are not perfectly aligned at the factory. Remember, they have an acceptable range, and all they do to ship the car is get it in that range. Getting the alignment EXACTLY perfect can be time consuming, so they don't do it.

A good race shop can do this for you and you should see benefits in the car tracking perfectly straight and even tire wear.

Hope this helps rather than confuses.

Best,

Ron

 

Impressed I said to myself no way he will get this answered. Well I was wrong.

Best
Lee

 

Those shims are available in different thicknesses to allow you to set OEM recommended values of camber because production tolerances on suspension parts is not that tight. If you took the shims out of your 458, you would likely find the thicknesses differ side to side to get the suspension geometry correct.

Like someone already stated, you will have a hard time seeing 1/2 degree of camber, but your tires surely will. That can be a recipe for quick tire wear, very quick tire wear, on a car that is driven on the street.

Incidentally 1/2 deg at 28" is a little less than 1/4". Tough to see.

 

You got some great advice. I would have a top race/ sports car/ Ferrari/ shop do the work you want. I would not play with the alignment purely for looks. If you do it, do it for driving reasons. JMHO.

 

Yup, she most likely does. Thickness depends on how much was needed to match the spec. In the olden days, there were extra shims on the outside, under the bolt, where they did not affect geometry so you could use them, if needed, when the suspension was aligned. Not on the current cars, as far as I know. Numbers 12 and 21 in these drawings from Ricambi's online catalog.
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you may have to add shims and/or use shims of different thickness. As much as we'd like to think how precise our cars are, "shims" are the final way to get accuracy in millimeters or tenths of a degree

I read from your other threads (Lowering, 100 octane) you are enjoying this car and sounds like your are doing some "hot rodding" to your tastes.

I would really encourage you to get that car setup properly by a 458-competent race shop. I have learned an immense amount about setups and chassis engineering in the past 6 months, thanks to working with the best Challenge team and some of the best development driver/coaches. R3/Scuderia Corsa are near you, I'd see them. ( I play with another team, BTW).

More front camber will trash the inside shoulders of your tires; when you also mess with ride height, you are going to want to adjust toe (front/rear), bump, etc etc.

If it looks good to you, I'd make sure it drives good for you, too.

 

458- As mentioned above, take it to a really good alignment shop, probably one recommended by your Ferrari tech, or your Ferrari tech if they have the equipment and expertise, that already has a stock of shims and tell them what your goals are. They will remove the old shims and/or insert the appropriate shims to give you what you think you want. Without talking to an expert, however, the car may handle like crap and wear out a pair of $4-500 each tires in 1500 miles. Suspension geometry needs to be very carefully adjusted by an expert who can also tell you what he is doing, why he is doing it, and how it will affect the car. Ferrari spent quite a bit of time developing the suspension geometry settings on the 458, and any deviation from recommended settings should be very carefully considered.

 

Nice. I love that you are having fun with it. I think you can make it look good, and make go even better! Negative camber can be fun, just be sure to inspect the tires frequently.

 

Piling on....having the equipment is one thing, knowing the "numbers" is another thing to be sure of. Many shops have the latest alignment equipment, but those tools tend to have the stock OEM settings. Only a shop that has experience with adjusting (and optimizing) all the various settings will be able to get beyond the OEM specs with confidence.

I am also now a believer in getting the car onto the scales and setting the corner weights; I've had my street Ferraris and X5M done and the changes were noticeable with an optimized setup

 

458,

Looking back at your threads, it seems you have the car lowered and have added spacers as well.

I would STRONGLY encourage you to get the car to a competent race shop at this point; the geometry on your car is now significantly different than Ferrari had designed, and you need a good set up. One of the suggestions was a corner balance, which makes sense; especially considering your ride height adjustment.

You may be really running the risk of handling issues, worn tires and damaged suspension components. Also keep in mind that these cars have highly complex systems and if you get too far out of factory parameters, these systems might not integrate properly and you may have other issues.

I'm not saying this cant be done, but I would keep in mind that you are now entering a "development program," something the factory has spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars to do already. The likelihood of improving the car without these resources is slim (to none).

My honest suggestion to you would be to put some of your development money into driver training, maybe at the track. Ferrari has their two day driving experience at Mont Tremblant, or you could seek out an FCA track day with a good instructor. I assure you, if you fix the "nut behind the wheel" your car will go faster and safer. Plus, you will have so much more fun!

Good luck and please stay safe.

Cheers,

Ron

 

Excellent advice. I would also suggest you don't track your car if it has spacers on it. They are fine for the street, but I get worried about the loads you can generate at the track. The most important component of any car is you. The second most important component is tires. I dont think you have moved your car so far out that it can't be setup, but it does need to see a professional with experience on these cars.

 

Does anyone have the alignment specs for a 2015 458 Spider? I am doing lowering springs and spacers. I can see how it measures before modding, but would prefer to have the actual specs for when I do the alignment.

 

I may have the info at my office; I'll check tomorrow if nobody else posts it here.

Ray

 

Ray

Could you check the torque specs for the nuts holding the lower A arm to the frame? Do you know if there's a risk of backing out the studs when you loosen the nuts to change csmber shims?

Thanks Ray

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From what I can see, it's 60 Nm. But I would suggest reading through the attached material before making adjustments. There is a procedure where you have to mark the stud and ensure things don't change - perhaps that is to guarantee that the stud is still secure.

If you are adding negative camber, don't forget you can take the shims from the top (if present) and transfer some down to the bottom to help push the lower A arm out further if needed.

I'm attaching two documents which will make life easier for you guys Don't forget the full 458 service manual can be had via eBay for $9 I believe. It's not perfect, but it's a big help more times than not.

May the force be with you!

Ray

 

Thanks Ray!

 

You got it man! Most welcome.

Ray