Should Ferrari Listen?

Nothing wrong with a manual Porsche and a paddle shifted Ferrari in ones garage. Lots of folks on here with those exact machines at their disposal .

G

 

I agree with the sentiment of the OP, but I don’t think it’s Ferrari’s target market. To me they’ve always been about race derived tech from “win on Sunday and sell on Monday”. After you own high HP/PDK/DCT/high downforce you realize it’s amazing tech, but not necessarily the recipe for the most fun street car.

Yes, I agree 400-500hp/lighter weight (3k lbs or less)/manual/NA/hydraulic rack makes for an extremely fun driver’s car, and it’s what I usually go for, but it’s not necessarily the most profitable approach (ie Lotus wouldn’t need to be bought out for the 10th time).

With that said, the only new cars that really appeal to me are from Porsche. Now if only they could be had at MSRP.

 

Yes, there is a demand for MT.

But that demand is not great enough to justify Ferrari making the R&D into a MT car for production.

Remember, Ferrari makes something like 12 to 13,000 cars worldwide (give or take), to make a MT it would have to take production capacity, which is limited, from another car that Ferrari believes (which it would know better than any of us here) would add a greater profit, on a net percentage basis, to its robust bottom line than a MT car.

It's all about opportunity cost, which Ferrari believes does not justify the cost and production of a MT model.

Yes, demand for MT is extant, but just not enough to justify Ferrari changing its production line.

TL;DR Ferrari understands its market, and it's meeting its market.

(Also, to those that say that MT are not suitable for modern engines, I have Gordon Murray holding on Line 1, he'd like a word with you. )

 

Absolutely, 100% incorrect. What "insane Ferrari engine" has a higher rate of acceleration than a Carrera GT, or a GMA T.50 or even an early 90's F1 car.

Complete nonsense.

 

I agree with you Gino— there is NO WAY anyone trying to drive a manual transmission could keep up with how quickly the later Ferraris like F8, Pista, SF90 etc get to 8+k rpm— happens WAYYY too fast for a manual transmission— would be completely useless. And lol @ the carrera Gt analogy— silliness. Gino is correct.


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LMAO I built/drove a 1500hp stick shift car. And that car was slowwww compared to the fastest manual transmission cars out there.

You guys are clueless.

 

Things like this exist and can be shifted but not possible because Ferrari? Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it's not already happening.

 

You’re kidding me! Porsche is pulling the same **** with the new specialty cars. The turbo classic, Dakar, etc etc. If you’re ever up in my neck of the woods, we’ll get some oysters and you can drive my stick euro 360 to Pearls…

the more was the push to F1 for $$$$ reasons.. but if the new buyers were truly stick drivers it wouldn’t matter. When I bought mine, nobody gave a **** about stick. I almost bought an F1 from Montreal but got my POS euro stick car from Miami. Because I wanted a stick car. New buyers aren’t that insistent.

 

HP is not what we are talking about— these cars go from 1k rpm to 8k in like one second— good luck trying to shift manually


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Since Ferrari becoming a public company and high profit margins are what they are concerned with, why not build a manually shifted car that is under 150,000 dollars.

Wouldnt they sell so many of those cars that the volume would make up for the profits they are looking to make ? If TF is right, and Im not saying he is not, if there is actually a higher demand for MT Ferraris , they would surely sell , no ?

At 150,000 price point, I myself would be able to consider buying one. I remember a thread here on F CHat that had a photo of what a modern 328 would look like, it was fantastic to me !!! I would love that so much that I would sell my 89 so I could buy one.

G

 

No human can shift as quickly and accurately as a DCT

We can lament the obsolescence of carburetors and three-pedal manuals, but they are slower and less efficient. Not even up for debate.

Whether that matters is a personal decision. But Ferrari (and Porsche) sell every sports car they can make. Hard to say they’re making the wrong product…


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Yes, but they are separate companies.

And, not to be pedantic about it, Fiat does not own a majority interest in Ferrari. The ownership group that owns Fiat holds a majority interest in RACE.

Ferrari’s top shareholders comprise of Piero Ferrari, son of Enzo, (at 10%) and Exor the private holding company of the Agnelli family, (at ~25%) which also controls the FIAT Chrysler Automotive group.

So, no, Fiat neither owns a majority of Ferrari, nor controls Ferrari to shift and/or increase production capacity at Maranello via Fiat's production.

 

So whats next ? You have a 1000 HP SF 90, why in Gods name do you need anything more ? You also have the SP3 Daytona, same thing. When does it end.

Why not go back in time and start to build cars that are more road going rather than ones built to take you to Pluto ?? I mean really, when does it end.

No one on Gods green Earth has a need for and will never be able to exploit these ultra hyper Ferraris, and frankly, from all the videos I see, they are quite boring to say the least.

I absolutely do not care HOW FAST ANY FERRARI IS !! I care about how it will let me be involved with the overall experience of
driving it on my favorite canyon roads.

Its a very different society today , when it comes to Ferrari ownership, all hear about is whether or not said Ferrari is going appreciate or depreciate .

My 328 is an extension of me, driving a Ferrari has always been in my blood, its not a fad, or a status symbol. I dont think thats the norm today.

G

 

The same thing can be said for motorcycle manufacturers. Once they hit the 200 BHP mark, anything more is just overkill in my estimation.

My Duc V4 S Streetfighter has 208 at the crank and it weighs abour 440 pounds. This is quite insane to say the least. The electronics in these bikes I believe have also reached the pinnacle as well.

With quick shifters and electronically controlled dampening , ABS, slide control and engine braking, you dont need anything else. The ECUs that are programmed at the factories are somewhat locked for emission regulations , can always be flashed and therefore unleashed .

My friends V4 S Pani was flashed and tuned on the Dyno, and produced 210 RW HP, and it weighs about 440 pounds as well. There is no reason on the planet to go beyond that for the street. Same goes for all the electronics.

My Suzuki GSXR 1300 has a big bore motor that was punched out to 1440 CCs. It could not be flashed due to no software available for a 2000. I had a Dyno Jet Power Commander installed and it was tuned on the Dyno at about 195 HP at the wheel, and 115 Ft Lbs of torque.

Some Busa owners SF 90 ( though no electric help ) their bikes so they can dial up 400 + Hp at their rear wheels, no need on Gods green Earth for that either.

G

 

Right so I mention T.50 and Carrera GT and get LOL horsepower thrown in my face.

So you would say this is just lumbering along compared to a modern Ferrari?



And the T.50 12,100rpm engine is basically a diesel?



Anyway. "horsepower is not what we are talking about"

Well if you can drive a car with over 2000hp at over 200mph in a quarter mile with a standard manual trans, you can do it with a 700-800hp Ferrari as well.

 

No one can shift as fast as a DCT. That doesn't mean a modern manual high horsepower ultra fast response engine can not be paired to a manual transmission if one so desires.

 

We actually agree on something. I had a V4 Panigale. Have much more fun on slower stuff so got rid of it.

Feel the same about cars. In that, usable power can be exceeded for most situations making modest power more enjoyable in most situations. (just don't think there's any correlation between power/response and the inability to pair it to a manual trans)

 

It will be today's 30 yr olds, almost none of whom even know how to drive stick. And the ones who do know how to drive stick will think a manual Ferrari is quaint.

 

Actually, the T50 revs to a theoretical 45K RPM in one second. It revs to 8K much more quickly.

 

I agree, Gino. I have a manual BMW and a paddle shifted Ferrari in my garage. Love 'em both.

 

"The way they build rpm" is proportional to the acceleration of the car (ignoring slip).

Modern Ferraris have insane acceleration, but obviously there is always bigger fish - with manual transmissions.

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Which matters not a bit in the street Olympic Games where 99.9% of these cars spend their whole lives (well on those rare days they leave the garage).

The plain truth is they provide more profit to the manufacturers and made for easy marketing….”buy the car with real F1 technology”.

There has never been a street legal OEM stock car that was “too fast” for a MT to handle….