Should Ferrari Listen?

This is so funny but true. When I was growing up, we were told that Japan was going to be on top industrially….now look at that wrecked economy.

China is in the midst of a major birth problem….. very few women available in certain age ranges.

 

Far from the truth, Ed Bolian covered this recently in a video, they love cars, there just isn’t enough people with enough money yet…..

 

They can’t do that without de-valuing everything else, Economics 101 and Marketing 102. That should have been where Maserati fit in, but they were allowed to go up market and build a MC20, which they can’t sell and depreciates harder than a MB sedan.

Shame because put a MT into that beautiful shape for a loaded price of $200k, and a bunch of us would be hanging out at Maserati Chat

 

ferrari's decision to make heavier non manual cars is a win in their eyes just based on the stock price, regardless of the resale market for the sf90 and 296 tanking - that's something they won't care about. all that matters is the stock price

imo they are never going to manufacturer a lightweight manual purists car as it would be sending the wrong message

 

I have driven both types of Ferrari's. I currently have a 599. I dont see how anyone would think a manual version is better to drive ? especially on track. the F1 gear box is not as good as the modern one in the 812 or SF90.... but I' sure in 10 years people will say those gear boxes are bad too. while there are times in traffic it would be nice to modulate the clutch a bit more at slow speed, I think the newer cars drive just fine - and that is how they are designed. I have a manual Fiat abarth that is fun and its a 5 speed... but in traffic I remember why i like the automatic much better!

As for Ferrari listening to its customers - why start now? they have never really cared about customers' opinions, and I dont see them doing so now. its kind of like going to Leonardo Da Vinci - and saying I'd like the Mona Lisa better if there was more blue in it....

 

I would tell him it would be a better painting with a better looking model.

As Austin Powers would say “it’s a man baby”

Or “Ain’t no man gonna moana over that Mona”

 

I will say this, I wish Ferrari would build a car with an F1 gearbox that I could afford !! That way I could also keep my 328 . Either way, Im happy as well as grateful with and for my 328. As I said before, Im 60 in April, and I cannot see myself buying another Ferrari in my lifetime, at least not on a payment plan.

I will keep my Q 50 as well as the 328. I will use my disposable income on motorcycles and Karts. I can still always dream about having the cash to buy another Ferrari, or a Porsche for that matter.

G

 

Ferrari, unlike say Porsche, is not a volume car maker.

They make more profit per car than just about any other marque out there (with the exception of boutique bespoke makers like Pagani or Koenigsegg).

Ferrari creates that patina of desirability by generating the notion that its cars are limited (even though they are technically not) and are scarce and hard to get by the hoi polloi.

So in many ways Ferrari can actually increase their profits by making less cars.'

It's the classic Veblan good.

 

people will get bored of electric sportscars and Ferrari will be forced to sell out on their brand into lower priced volume sales imo that's the fate of ferrari

 

Lisa di Joconda is not a great looker for sure. I'm a painter as well, and have been working on my portraits over the last couple of years - I've tried to copy the Mona lisa ... it is remarkably hard... for me that is when I realy appreciate the skill and beauty of the painting.. it seems basic and easy... but its not. Like all great design simple is complex under the skin.

 

doubtful. I think Ferrari will continue on just fine IF ICE engines go away. if the ICE stays, Ferrari will continue as a niche brand like Patek Philippe or Hermes.... doing what they do best. I think ultimately Jay Leno is right- people will have exotic cars like people have horses today.

 

The answer to this question is: Why do they need to?

If you sell every car you make and have a 2 year waiting list, there's very little incentive to change.

I also think they are a slave to lawyers, regulations, pubic relations, etc. Its not 1967 anymore. You can't just build whatever you want. Like -- you can't have pop up headlights and bumpers and hoods have to be pedestrian friendly and it has to pass all these different emissions tests from cold start to full throttle and so on.

There is one thing funny though. I drive around town in my 328 and people come up and give it a thumbs up. I look at them and I would say 50% couldn't fit in it at all, or at least would find it uncomfortable. So its probably good for sales that they started to make cars for larger people. Everyone is getting bigger.

 

If ferrai listen to marketplace the interiors would still not get sticky and their automatic transmissions would not fail at an alarmingly rate.

Chevy makes their 1st vette with a dct and have almost zero failures. Ferraris suck so bad my 2001 gated maranello is the last ferrai I will ever own because I don't have to worry about getting towed home.

 

Seems like a lot of C8 DCT problems for an almost new car.

 

There are?

 

Here is a recent thread, not sure if link will work

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c8-general-discussion/4807420-joined-the-transmission-issue-club.html

 

Appears to be a Tremec issue (the maker of the DCT for the C8).

Would be like blaming BMW for transmission failures when they outsource it to ZF.

 

What are you talking about? I was responding to the comment that they have almost zero DCT failures. Whether or not Tremec makes the trans changes nothing at all.

So how does that conversation go.

Yeah the C8 has absolutely no issues.

-But my transmission doesn't work.

Oh that doesn't count, GM didn't make it. LOL

 

it's just a question of where exotic cars will sit in the future, the sexy styling and brand name + being expensive is a large part of it but fundamentally them being faster than almost every car on the road + being as fast as competitors is what makes them who they are. the game is very much shifting though and imo EV's are changing peoples perception of what cars are and imo it's hard to imagine a world where electric sportscars are posters on kids walls growing up

 

Hi everyone.
I don’t know if the only point here is the manual transmission, or the stick shift.
I think that most comparisons between car models are now about comfort vs. rawness.
If you take the Alfa Romeo 4C, it had a paddle shift coupled to a direct, unassisted steering. And it was light. And half the power of an entry level Ferrari.
I never drove it but some say it is fun.
The Dallara Stradale concept is similar.

So if we take Ferrari as just a money maker, nothing can be said insofar. But if we take Ferrari as a sportscar company that used to have a heart, in my opinion there could be room for a new and different car. A high tech, raw car in limited numbers. You make it out of carbon fiber, you give it 300 hp - that is more than enough for the public roads - and you make it light but comfortable for tall people.
Imagine a Ferrari version of the Lotus Exige, but larger, carbon luxurious, capable of holding people that aren’t contorsionists or dwarfs. You want to offer it with a vintage stick shift? Do it too, who cares?
I mean, how can you feel ashamed of a stick shift if the design of most of your new cars is inspired to the grandparent cars of the past without a single new idea ever?
Will this car rocket the RACE stocks?
Will it make billions?
But who cares?
The raison d’etre of Ferrari is (was) to make the people feel their hearts when driving and when watching races, isn’t it?

I think the point of this thread isn’t just about the manual transmission, but to have Ferrari make a new car that you can use on the public roads to have a lot of fun without killing anyone (incl. yourself) or going to jail.
And to do this we have to disconnect from the 0-60 as a single parameter for comparison.

Ciao ciao,
Nic

 

I dream for a modern Dino. But I’m a realist, no way it would be a Ferrari Dino. It would be too downmarket, too slow. It would have to be a Fiat Dino, 400hp, manual, 2800lb, $100-150k. Or just put a stick in the 4c