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Should Ferrari withdraw from F1, has the bias gone too far?

Discussion in 'F1' started by daytona355, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

    Mar 25, 2009
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    with Seb’s ridiculous penalty in Canada, the result of being a racing driver that wants to keep the car running rather than end up in the gravel trap, and watching Elton’s self involved ‘recovery’ in practice almost running straight into Verstappen and yet not judged to be an unsafe manoeuvre despite causing Max to take avoiding action, is it time for Ferrari to reconsider involvement in a series so obviously now geared towards being

    A). A show, and not a race, with artificial overtaking (rarely, but artificial all the same) with KERS and DRS etc
    B) biased towards Mercedes
    C) where our innovations are swooped upon by the regulators and more often than not restricted or removed completely, while Mercedes allowed to continue until mathematically uncatchable before even questioned
    D). Tyre regulations, and a tyre manufacturer, actually hostile towards all teams bar Mercedes, for whom secret tyre tests and favourable data sharing is not only done behind closed doors, but openly discussed, and insinuated by the players, if not quite openly admitted

    In my opinion, the F1 we once knew died when the latest round of rules were rushed through to the benefit of Mercedes, and with ongoing regulations decided between the FIA and Mercedes to the direct and OBVIOUS benefit of Mercedes and detriment of every other team.

    Racing is discouraged, real racing between opposing teams is absolutely discouraged, to the point where a win by a team other than Mercedes as a result of performance is eliminated using the stewards despite the unified public outcry it caused both at the time and ongoing in the media.

    The tyre manufacturer is able to change the spec of the tyres to rescue the performance of Mercedes, while the obvious statements of all other teams that the tyres are not working, or difficult to work with, are met with a demand that those teams have to individually formally request amendment, and once seven teams have agreed in such a manner, the tyres MAY be reviewed. They have been caught offering secret tyre tests and sharing data.

    The stewards, and the overarching regulation, is becoming so obviously biased in their indifference to even the most flagrant breaches of the rules by Mercedes and their drivers, yet pick fault almost strategically against other teams and drivers which can almost be revealed as plotted to prevent actual racing.

    Ferrari is the biggest name in F1, without Ferrari F1 won’t last a season, no one will watch, tv companies won’t give a damn about showing it, pay per view or not, and Liberty will go bust through their stupidity.

    Ferrari have the opportunity to revamp racing, offer a series to the teams that want to follow where they could simplify the rules, bring the costs down, and actually have an interesting series again. Enough circuits out there don’t hold F1 races anymore, we don’t need 50 races a year, maximum of 15 is fine, and they could go to plenty of circuits ready and willing to welcome them at reasonable cost. TV revenue would be enormous, Ferrari draws the Tv money for F1, no one watches for Williams, McLaren or even Mercedes, 75% are drawn in to see Ferrari, liberty shouldn’t kid itself.

    There is no point taking part if you know that not only are the rules and regulations written in such manner as to guarantee the success of one team over the rest, but that the stewards are ready and waiting to rectify things if for some reason, any other team gives the impression they might win a race
     
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  2. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    The only “racing” allowed in F1 is those behind a computer simulating loads on parts. Not even racing sims, I just mean R&D. F1 is crap. It isn’t a sport. It isn’t a competition.
     
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  3. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Ferrari presented seven pieces of evidence:

    1) Analysis of the telemetry data of VET’s car, including car attitude channels
    2) A video analysis of the camera views (front view, top view, onboard cameras of Vettel and Hamilton) prepared after the race
    3) A video analysis performed by Karun Chandhok for Sky Sports after the race
    4) A video of VET’s face camera, which was released by F1 Limited after the race
    5) Post-race and video images
    6) Analysis of the GPS racing line data of both Hamilton and Vettel in the Situation lap and in the previous race laps
    7) Witness statement of Vettel

    The stewards said pieces of evidence one, two, fifth, six and seven were in fact “available before the end of the competition”. They said the third piece of evidence, “was new but not significant and relevant as this is a personal opinion by a third party”.

    And finally, the fourth piece of evidence “was new but not significant and relevant as the evidence contained in this video footage can be seen within other available video”.

    As a result, the Canadian Grand Prix result remains the same, with Hamilton the victor ahead of Vettel with Charles Leclerc completing the podium.


    The “available before the end of the competition”. is a rather odd statement in my book because they made the decision several laps after the incident and there is no way they could analyse all that data in such a short amount of time.

    Lets face it they couldn't back track on the decision as it would have opened the doors to all sorts of reviews past and future.
     
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  4. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    A breakaway series with NFL style ownership is the way forward. Clean aero, as in no daft aero bits. Simple wings with less of an extreme angle, and employ a venturi tunnel floor with a maximum width and height to regain a lot of -clean- downforce. No DRS, no KERS.

    NA 3.5 liter V10/12 engines, locked internal dimensions, rev cap, materials used cap, cost cap. Cosworth, Gibson, AER can all make an engine and supply teams, and make money out of it without cost skrocketing. Hell I bet Red Bull could make their own engine and supply other teams, even if its just themselves and STR. Say 10 engines per car per season. 250k per unit thereabouts.

    Steel brakes to limit cost. What makes carbon/carbon brakes so expensive is the fact they take 6 months to build.

    Simply limit where money can be spend and allow everyone to make money. I don't think salaries should be capped. Red Bull wants to pay Newey 20 million? Be my guest. Ferrari want to pay their driver 50? Go for it.

    F1 is not sustainable any longer. It's become a spending race. The one with the most money wins. No one can compete with Mercedes for a simple reason: Money. Mercedes employs 50% more people than Ferrari or Red Bull. Mercedes has several teams working different concepts and perfecting the next years cars already. Mercedes goes through 100 engines on the dyno! These ridiculous, anti-racing engines that focus more on hypermiling than what the sport should be really about: Racing. The engines are so prohibitively expensive, the moment the regulations came out Cosworth pulled the plug, they knew they didn't have a hope in hell building any form of engine without the company bankrupting. Mercedes, today, still sells it's engines at a big loss as the teams it's supplies are already bleeding money left and right. How much longer does F1 this is sustainable?

    F1's proposed cost cap will not work. It's impossible to police Mercedes, and presumably Ferrari and Red Bull to a smaller degree, will simply set up ''affiliated workshops'' that do the rest of the work that, amazingly, supply the teams with parts and engines for nothing! They'll just move their excess employees there. The gap between big and small teams will be even larger.

    The current rules prevent racing at the minimum. Sadly, the seemingly corrupted brass decides the results of the race when there's the rare battle on. The only tyre supplier is suspicious at best; delivering a tyre to the richest team hell bend on getting the perfect season sorted because they voiced some concern go 3 GP's last year, and now that tyre is the main tyre....whilst everyone else designed their car around the previous years tyre! Dropping tyre pressures when a certain team is struggling on a Friday...Questionable and inconsistent calls from stewards biased to a certain team, hell, we even had an FIA employed steward lobbying for a penalty after the rest of the stewards didn't deem a penalty necessary!

    Most of the teams are struggling to survive, let alone compete. F1 has to make the call now to sort it out. Jobs will be lost, but it's up to F1 if they want everyone to lose their job or just a percentage.
     
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  5. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 Veteran
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    Yep

    All this "drama" was to appease Seb as in " We gave it go Seb but it is what it is." Fair enough. I would have done the same.

    I will say this, 5 of 7 listed the FIA knew already.

    The video from Karun was completely thrown out which was the 6th item. Understandable.

    Mekies went into this meeting saying that Ferrari had "overwhelming" evidence. According to the FIA, it was'nt so "overwhelming."

    Also, Mekies used to work for the FIA so sending him in front of the FIA did'nt seem to have any leverage.
     
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  6. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    It was never going to happen, everyone knows that. As said before it would leave the door wide open. And FIA going against it's own stewards? Fat chance. The damage was already done, only made worse if they now reversed it again. Their reputation is already in tatters.
     
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  7. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    and you haven't even started on the motor homes / hospitality suites which look like mini 5 star [portable] hotels. Rather grandiose and totally unnecessary which the small teams for forced to compete with otherwise they get zilch sponsorship.

    cost cutting is in reality just a publicity exercise to show restraint when in fact they all revel in it.

    Mercedes is a huge empire with unlimited engineers, technicians, management etc etc that nobody can compete with.

    tony
     
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  8. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The thing with motorhomes though, is they are one off expenses and tend to last multiple years. I think Red Bull used their last one for nearly a decade.

    A budget cap will never be the answer. Never. Too easy to go around it. Simplifying aero and engines is the way forward. The wing shape can still be free, but endplates must be straight. No extra aerofoils or elements on it. No holes or crazy edges.

    Barge boards? Get rid.

    There won't be much to be gained, therefore no need to employ a force the size of a medium sized town to win a tenth of a second. Simple.

    I genuinenly wonder how long F1 thinks their current product is sustainable for. Both for teams and fans....I can't see many people being really interested in watching much longer, partially due to an unchallenged team up front. It wasn't long ago that the FIA did everything to neuter one such teams advantage (see Red Bull, Ferrari dominance). Now it seems encouraged.

    The problem is that F1 is risking it's core fan base. Blow it with them and you will never win them back. And that's where the sport dies.
     
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  9. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Bas, surely they cost a fortune to transport around the world ! Green credentials?

    I noted in another thread a photo of the bargeboards and undertray in front of the side pods on the Merc [and others], how the hell is a person supposed to assist a driver in the event of a major accident, event the drivers struggle to hop over them!
     
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  10. Isobel

    Isobel F1 Veteran
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    I wish Ferrari had a consigliere who could singularly demand FIA change the call or else. Advise them Ferrari is gone by France and leave it at that. Pull the cars from F1 if required. I believe the voices of all the drivers (except Merc’s, obviously) should be enough of a confirmation Pirro’s opinion was based on maintaining his position rather than being fair.
     
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  11. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The big homes are only used in Europe so just stick them on a lorry and drive them about.

    Let the lorries be the electric ones from Mercedes, see, theyll make some money out of it!:D
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Ferrari stay. Vettel go.
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    For a team such as Ferrari this was useless. Appeasement for Vettel but he is #1 so ok. My answer to the thread question by Sid is no.
     
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  14. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

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    Why should Ferrari leave? The problems with F1 are obvious and have been for quite some time...but Ferrari is as complicit as any other team as far as the state of the sport, technically and otherwise. Especially so under Marchionne, they have absolutely been leading the charge when it come to wanting F1 engines to "remain hybrid and road relevant" blah, blah...

    The only people talking about v10s and v12s wistfully these days are drivers like Sebastien and Lewis...
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    If Ferrari withdraw from F1, so be it.
    We have lost famous teams in the past, and F1 survived .
    Probably F1 would lose the tifosi who are only interested in Ferrari, but the real enthusiasts would still follow the championship, I believe.
     
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  16. blkfxstc

    blkfxstc Karting
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    No, work with the FIA to improve F1.
     
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  17. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    Just in from the FIA, “the cars will be required to hold station in the position they qualified at a pace no more than 40% of the cars potential as any passing is unsafe in any manner and we must conserve natural resources. The parade starts tomorrow”.
     
  18. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

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    No. A team should not drop out because they are losing. If every team dropped out when Ferrari was dominating, there would be no F1
     
  19. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    I think Ferrari should leave and make another series, teh success will be where Ferrari is, it's as simple as that, if ferrari leaves, merc will leave F.1 almost imidiatly...because without Ferrari it's a hollow series, just like Toyota fighting privateers in Lm...
     
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  20. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Would love to see Ferrari back in sports car racing. F1 is just not exciting anymore.
     
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  21. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    F1 has been dead since 2011, what’s the difference?
     
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  22. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    Today was the perfect example.... so, predictions..... Elton won, bottles second, LeClerc ideally third, but may suffer mechanical issues and be fourth behind Verstappen. Seb spins, stays seventh by the end. Stewards penalise at least two people, neither will be Mercedes, BUT the penalties will likely help Mercedes in one way or the other....BORED
     
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  23. cairns

    cairns Formula Junior

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    A true Tifosi would never quit. Or even think of it. Enzo would roll over in his grave at the thought. And he had many losing seasons.

    And if you're that bored stop watching. No one's forcing you.
     
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  24. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2016
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    I would love to see Ferrari back in sports car racing too, I think the new Hypercar category of the ACO is a great opportunity for Ferrari to win Le Mans again, which has not happened since 1965. Ferrari manufactures supercars and hypercars and that's their place competing against Aston Martin Valkyrie, Toyota GR SuperSport and the possible McLaren or Porsche Hypercar.
     
  25. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 Veteran
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    I'll give Binotto 2 years to prove the turn around.

    The other 2 TP's were IMO, not "technical" enough and were from the "outside".

    So no (response to OP)...........for the moment.
     
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