I am looking at a 1999 355 GTS F1....
I am looking at a 1999 355 GTS F1. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2648&item=200683464970&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT The dealer claims he doesn't have any records of maintenace what should I do? I am 2000 miles away so it's rather hard to look at the car in person. The car has 27,000 miles what should I expect to speed on a car that seems to be in good condition other than the lack of any records? thanks for any help, Erick
Hi Eric! I was looking at a lovely 328GTS with no records and decided that it was too big a risk for me. That being said if you can arrange a PPI on the car prior to buying OR bidding that would go a long way in answering any questions you might have on the car. Also you could make it a condition of your bidding. Also buy a car proof/car fax report (the $50 one) on the VIN# and that should show any concerns or previous "issues" reported on it. Keep in mind that the 355 is an expensive one to fix (Yeah...like any are cheap to fix!!!) its main concerns are the valve glides/guides and the exhaust headers which need attention. A friend of mine bought a used Ferrari and has said you are on your own once you buy it. But a good PPI is worth its weight in gold and if there is a Ferrari dealership near it I am sure they would do a PPI for you. Ferrari of Ontario (in Toronto, Canada) told me they would do a PPI with a compression test on the 328 for about $600 so the dealerships are willing to help. A lack or records should be reflected in the price/bid Let us know how it goes! Terry Jones Ottawa, Canada
Hi Erick, The only option you really have is to ask for recommendations for a trustworthy shop (preferably one with intimate knowledge of the 355 and it's mechanical proclivities) who can perform a VERY complete pre purchase inspection for you. That is always money well spent and, really, a must. Someone here in the NC section will most likely be able to refer you to a good shop or individual. Considering the absence of any records, I would factor in a major service immediately, and I think most would agree. Valve guides and headers can cause trouble as well and would certainly need to be closely examined in the PPI.
That is a great car, GTS F1 was my first choice. I wouldn't pass right away because the car has no records...but I don't like the ebay feedback of only 90% on the seller. Yes definitely need a thorough PPI before making an offer...I would NEVER buy a 355 with no records and without a PPI.
In addition to my earlier reply the car does look well kept and is the "rarer" GTS version. Good luck with your decision and all the best! Terry Jones Ottawa, Canada
CarFax means nothing on these things We have a cgt in our area that hit a wall at 140mph. Got repaired with no CarFax history. Another Murci up here wrecked one morning with no reports to CarFax Just sayin Get a PPI and figure 15k for sorting the car out so you have no surprises Edit. It's sure pretty. Just dont let beauty override reason.
I would second all of this. The 90% feedback on the ebay seller is alarming. I don't know how much you know about ebay but anyone with less than 98% is upsetting alot of people. I don't know if I have ever seen a vendor with a rating as low as 90%. A PPI is a MUST if buying sight unseen. I searched for 3 years for the right car to come up locally to me because I was not interested in all the potential problems/costs of buying long distance. "problems or costs", that is what you will incur when buying long distance. Pick one if you want to go that route.
A couple of things: A car without records is just what it appears -- an unknown. That doesn't mean it's bad. You just have to assume nothing was done maintenance wise and start from scratch (a complete engine out). So, value it with that as a deduction. For a 355 F1, that's a lot. You have to assume it needs a clutch or will shortly. Others can tell you how much they pay for a major on a 355 but it's not chicken feed. Second, a PPI is even more essential from someone you can trust (given its so far away). Some Fchatter should help direct you to someone they can count on because if you leave it to the dealer, you never really know, do you. Third, this is a used car dealer. The 90% feedback does not scare me at all. I'd be in shock that more used car dealers don't get even lower ratings. I bet if you put real Ferrari dealers up on Ebay, you'd get 90%. So, it's not unusual that the guy gets 2 unhappy guys in 12 months selling used cars. Would I buy one without records? Well, probably not unless I really wanted this particular car or I got it at a fantastic price. But, you have to assume that it's not been well maintained and you need someone to verify that it actually works, hasn't been crashed or abused, and it's a nightmare in the making. Lastly, buying a used car is always a risk. Having good records lessens that risk and improves resale values because it's easier to sell. The person you eventually sell it to may have the same concerns. Keep that in mind too. Good luck!
Thanks everyone for your reply. I will make certain to get a PPI done before I make a serious offer. I would rather find a manual yellow GTS but this is a beauty otherwise.
RUN! Lots of good advice here, please listen to it. Don't feel like you have to buy something and get in a hurry. Lots of fantastic cars come on the market at a steady pace.
Ad suggests service with pads & battery 3000 miles ago - how does the dealer know if there's no record ? Maybe there's a stamp in the book in which case the stamper might be able to advise what was done - otherwise as noted above thoro PPI & allow for full engine out belt service on day one since implicitly even the quoted service is minor not including belts
IMO in this buyers market, there are many cars FS with recorded history, and such can be negotiated down in price likely, so if you have reservations, why not pass and go onto look at others with more clear recordkeeping my $0.02
You can read my thread in the link below. I bought a car, with service records, flew across the country, had a PPI, and still had immediate mechanical surprise expenses. Although, it is a Mondial T, they're both Ferraris! Check out my thread, it might be helpful. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347190
Just because the selling dealer doesnt have records doesnt mean that records dont exist. My advice: Spend the money on a car fax. You will get a better detailed report then the free report on ebay. The car fax will tell you where the car was bought and serviced. If its a Ferrari dealer then call them up. The wil not give you the service records till you prove ownership but if the dealer is reasonable he will tell you the service history over the phone and email it to you once you decide to buy the car. According to ebay there were only 3 owners so the chain of service shouldnt be long. Good luck
No paper work just means you have no assurances of what was done. Which, as a buyer, you have to assume nothing was done. Personally I would prefer a car like this. But you have to buy it correctly. What would you pay for the car if it had just received a full engine out service and new clutch? Deduct those service costs plus a bit more for the unknown history / risk and make an offer. If you can agree to a price, buy the car and take it your shop and start the repairs. The result will be a car that has a new starting point for service and you got to control the process so it was done to your satisfaction. If you can't agree on a price then you know he is asking too much and he is ignoring a glaring issue with the car....the discussion ends. If you do repair it, you now have a detailed & documented full engine out service and a clean car fax for the car. I suspect it will be reasonably easy to sell if you need to. If you bought it correctly, you should be able to get out without too much collateral damage. Best of luck......... edit: BTW an PPi is nice and all, but there are is no way to substitute that for records being gone. Do a PPI and get some leakdown numbers so you know just how big a deal the engine out service is going to be.
The add also stated that the car was serviced by a Ferrari dealership at 24,444 miles. How did they know that if there are no records? The stamp in the book?
Why you want the records - Because when something happens shortly after purchase, you can exclude potential candidates that might cause the problem. I had a PPI. I was told by a reputable Ferrari shop that a compression & leakdown weren't needed and the car was mint. The car CEL lights started lighting when I started driving it right after purchase. I had the compression then checked: Cyl 3 & 4 were 20%(ish) lower than the rest. valve guides! Nope. documentation said done < 5K miles ago by a reputable shop. Valves! Nope. Major done 2 years & < 2K miles ago by a reputable shop. I also had the compression numbers from the last major. That helped alot. That documentation eliminated lots of worries! I use it for reference. Otherwise, go for the full monty on a PPI and spend some serious time examining the car. Top to bottom. As to what's causing my low compression? The car sat for a bunch of years with very little use. It's hypothesized the rings might have shrunk some. We put some oil in the cylinders & retested & that dropped the difference down to 10% disparity. For now, I'm driving it, hoping the use helps it, and will have it retested shortly. I'll take care of the issue at the next engine-out service in a year.
While currently in the market for a car - preferably a 355 Berlinetta - I have faced similar circumstances in trying discussions with sellers (dealerships) wanting to know about the availability of full service history docs...often at a long distance similar to the OP. It's not easy. I'm taking the approach cited by many responses above, that I shouldn't be in a hurry, they made more than one, be careful of what you get told, and although a PPI is mandatory for a pre-owned Ferrari, be prepared for some surpri$e$ afterward. I do like the other advise I've been given...to buy the most cared for car that I can afford...more expensive initially, but less expensive in the long run. Nobody can tell you the car in question is good or bad. Your due diligence is required to sort everything out to your satisfaction. So, the question is, "Are you satisfied?"
And then, there is this http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340077 Where someone just bought the car and lovingly spent copious amount of money to bring it back to show room condition. Buy it, fix it, drive it. You will pay one way or another. I am not a fan of ppi. The only ppi I ask for is a compression check and a leak-down if the compression test points to a need for a leak down.
A 355, with F1, 30K miles, and no records, and sight unseen? You'd have to be crazy to buy it! If it needs valve giudes and exhaust headers, I'm not exactly sure, but believe you're looking at close the 20 grand! Finding a great 355 with all records and maintenance recorded and up to date, is not much more expensive than the potential money pit you're currently looking at! Just my 2 bits opinion of course, but geeze, you don't want to end up hating the car because it's at the shop all the time sucking up your cash! John
I think that if the price reflects that, it should be fine, just get a PPi done. Its not like these cars are garbage or something. I purchased my first ferrari with no records at all. I have owned for 7 years no problem. I think ferrari buyers are getting to over concerned with the car records, as a matter a fact so concerned that records are being fabricated, so you feel better about buying a good car.
