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Discussion in 'California/Portofino' started by Joshcruz713, Jan 28, 2018.
If you are interested in a possible solution to your problem send me a PM
Not sure why that isn’t fair to the dealer as they sold you a car that was materially defective. Do they not inspect their cars before they buy them? Did you not have it inspected or check the service records?
I am just so curious as to how one gets hit with a $40k bill and doesn’t raise hell. I must be missing something here.
I think it's fair to say there is a lot more going on then may be posted in these forums publicly.
As for the PPI the OP hasn't said as much but I'm guessing no, and I'm also going to guess he had no idea it was needed. Unfortunately he is finding out the hard way. If it weren't for my friend that turned me onto Ferraris and this forum I wouldn't know. I'd just assume you would buy one like any other car.
You are correct, I didnt do a PPI, as I had purchased from this guy before, and didnt feel I needed one. His business is pretty successful, and most of his deals are handshake deals, most customers dont even test drive his cars. He is very well trusted, which is why I really dont believe he did this to intentionally get over on me. As implausable as it is, I am leaning towseds believing that the car actually was fine when he had it, and all this crazy stuff was just triggered at random, Ive been told by all of the Ferrari techs so far, that this kind of DCT issue, indeed just does "happen" sometimes, with no rhyme or reason.
Or if it was already a known issue, then the previous owner was the culprit, and was able to hide it and lie to the dealer somehow.
Either way, none of us can really know for sure what truly happened here, it's just really really bad luck on my end is all I can say for sure.
Honestly, the timing is too coincidental for the seller or his mechanic not to know (plausible deniability). These indy guys are the bottom feeders at auctions. So I imagine he tells his mechanics to clear codes on everything he buys, and it gets put up to sell and they hope it gets driven seldom enough that the codes don't come on again.
And you know this now, but for any buyers reading this, not getting a PPI was so damn stupid...I'm getting a good PPI even if my Mother was selling me a car.
Looks like you're in Houston. Call Mark at Sphere Motorsports (who you want as your mechanic going forward anyway) and discuss the issue with him.
Yes, you are correct. I have now learned my lesson, the long, hard, non lubricated way.
And I'm not a big fan of putting ppl on blast, but Mark is actually the first mechanic we took the car to, who also said the only option at this point was replacing the gearbox entirely. So his opinion is the same as Ferraris. Which is why, even though alot of "online experts" are saying the Ferrari dealership is full of ****, and just trying to sell me a $40,000 repair, even the independent mechanics are saying the same thing. So at what point do I stop paying for expensive diagnostic fees and just accept that this is the only solution, short of buying a salvage gearbox and rolling the dice on whether my $10-13,000 spent on a used tranny is actually going to work or not, and running the risk of that $13,000 also going straight down the drain, and ending up right back at square one, now $13,000 poorer, money that could have gone towards a new box, and a vehicle that has to be completely taken apart AGAIN, citing even more labor costs.
So, right now, I'm just crossing my fingers that maybe the oil and lubricant samples come back normal and not discolored, indicating my clutch is fine and the tranny isnt leaking into other components.
If thats the case, also taking into factor that the car actually does drive completely normal when the codes are clear, it still gives me hope that maybe it really is just a simple sensor issue, thats causing a domino effect of tripping off all the other sensors. And it's possible that fixing one tier of the DCT would eliminate all the other secondary and tertiary issues.
Keeping hope alive.
I like the way you are thinking your way through this. Mark has been my mechanic on the Diablo Roadster for 4 years, and we went through a $13k engine out last year.
So I don't know anything about Calis (other than thinking about putting a T on my list), but it seems like there was a fix after yours was built. Can you buy one of those used upgraded ones if it fits? Putting $40k into a $100k car just seems to be a stretch.
Haha, yeah, stretching my ***hole wide open.
So, I didnt know that the 2010 Calis were actually famous for this DCT issue until AFTER I bought the car and joined this forum. Just my luck.
But from what Ive read, I think I understand that the 2012 and up Calis did address this issue, and fixed it.
So while it would logically seem like buying a 2012+ gearbox would be the smartest move, I dont know if they are just plug and play in any Cali model, or if things would have to be retrofitted.
Also, Im told the 2010's dont have a second heat exchanger, like the newer models do, which might also make the newer gearboxes incompatible.
If you decision is to go with Ferrari and they have to replace the gear box let's look at the positives here. All of the DCT components will be covered for 2 years. You can rest assured that should your transmission fail again in this 2 year period your covered. While it's in the shop you can have the rest of the car inspected to flesh out any lurking potential problems. That way you know you have as healthy of a car as possible. You are building a relationship with the maintainance dept. and that's never a bad thing.
Ultimately the decision you've made is probably the right one. Wait and see what happens and hope for a tier one repair and follow what ever reccomendations the Ferrari dealer gives you. It ain't like your declining to change the brake pads at 50% it's a malfunctioning DCT. While I personally would consider a used box I can't say I wouldn't eventually come to the same place you are at. A used unit would significantly tarnish the cars resale value and could be nearly as bad as a branded title.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Welcome to the Ferrari community, sorry it's been a rough initiation.
Oh, and since you know who Mark is, it might benefit you to know that he is the "His mechanic" you were referring to in your first post, the one you think was in cahoots with the dealer, clearing out the codes, just FYI.
I don't know him as well as you do, but he seems like a pretty genuine, straight up guy, I dont think he is the culprit here.
Lol, rough indeed, but I'm not giving up, I'm gonna get through this mess and come out clean on the other side, with a beautiful Ferrari under my ass.
Thanks for welcoming me into yalls community, I hope to get to play with Ferraris fot the rest of my life and have a better experience next time around.
OK, so the dealer didn't even use his own mechanic? I can tell you Mark won't jeapordize his reputation for a 3rd tier dealer that can't afford his own staff. He's not afraid to fail a car on a PPI, I've heard that in person.
I'm assuming not.
So, from what I heard, theres only three or four ppl in Houston who have the machine to hook up to a Ferrari and pull codes, program etc.
Thats the two Ferrari dealerships, Mark, and one other guy, cant remember who.
Dont know the validity of this claim though.
But the transmission tunnel should not have changed so there shouldn't be a physical issue, and there should be a number of ways to mount a heat exchanger.
I know Driver Source has one....sure there are others.
Many years ago I bought an air cooled 911 and it passed a ppi with great results. Within a month it was burning a quart of oil every 500 miles and the transmission would grind while shifting into 3rd. Sometimes life feeds you a **** sandwich. You'll get through this. You already have a positive outlook and seem to be receiving sound advice. Best of luck.
That's funny! My 328 actually it's actually stated in the manual to expect one quart per 500 miles!!
So Ive been asked more than once, what mode I was driving in when this happened. I had the car in comfort mode from the time I left the dealership. They asked if I ever put it in sport mide, and sort of alluded to the possibility that driving in sport mode in city stop and go traffic could have caused the clutch overheat issue. I understand in sport mode, the gears are programmed to wind out longer, giving you higher rpms, but causing undo stress on the clutch from the constant shifting.
Can anyone attest to this? Can driving the California in "Sport Mode" in stop and go 35 mph traffic cause the clutch to burn up? Or is this not true?
Ive read several posts where ppl say they drive in sport mode exclusively, which I would assume includes driving in stop and go traffic.
It shouldn't make a difference what mode you are in if you are just moving along in stop and go traffic. It will have no effect on clutch operation or temperature.
If the temperature is registering too high in stop and go traffic and causing you to lose reverse and even gears, my guess that the temperature sensor is defective.
They are a known part with a high failure rate.
I suppose that the clutch could have leakage from a solenoid or seal, causing it to partially apply and overheat and cause your problem, but this would cause all sorts of other shifting issues and very weird transmission function, and I would give it a probability of less than 1% as being the problem.
Someone smart with good diagnostic equipment needs to drive the car and monitor the temperature sensor readings (which measure the temperature of the oil as it is flinging off of the clutches. Erratic or inconsistent temperature readings indicate a bad temperature sensor, which is not that hard to replace.
Have you had the DTC and transmission fluids checked for levels and discoloration? If the clutch fluid has been getting hot enough to cause the car to start dropping gears, then it will be much darker in color than new fluid.
I just got off the phone with Andy, he said they've done numerous tests, and theyre sending all of the info to FNA.
He wouldn't give me any specifics though. So I'm fearful now that they have already decided a new gearbox is the only solution, but since I'm still pressing them for some deus ex machina that might save me from buying a new gearbox, theyre just like, "Screw it, we'll just keep piling up labor hours "diagnosing" his car, then give it back after two weeks and tell him "Welp, its just like we thought, you need a new gearbox, thatll be $5,000 for the diagnosis"
It's really too bad your car isn't at boardwalk Ferrari as I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread that they are fairly proficient with the DCT. I have also heard a lot of other good things about boardwalk Ferrari and think when I finally add a Ferrari to my garage will use them for service since I'm almost half way between them and Ferrari of Denver. Doesn't really matter which one as I'd have to ship the car to either place but word of mouth puts boardwalk a bit higher.
Hopefully you will get some meaningful information soon.
It's worth at least sending a PM to Steve at Boardwalk (his username here is safe4now) on here for his opinion ... don't feel forced to stay at one certain dealer if another has a better solution for you. I just put my 2013 up for sale (18k miles) and it has the full extended warranty till 6-28-18 (I bought the warranty through Steve) but I will strongly recommend to the buyer that they extend it with the New Power option, even though my gearbox has always performed perfectly.
They should not present you with a huge bill for diagnosis, either ... I once had an independent work for 40 hours on a sluggish 911 that mystified two dealerships and another independent ... he finally found a clogged fuel rail and charged me two hours labor to clean it. I said, "You've worked on the car for an entire week changing parts ... how can it just be two hours?" And he said, "Why should you pay while we learn?" I wish he worked on Ferraris.
Wish I was ready to buy right now since a 13-14 is my target year car.
Josh - that might be a good thing. FNA will SOMETIMES do Goodwill work - they might comeback and say just repair it and we will cover the labor (Has happened to me with an S400 engine failure and MBUSA paid for labors at 80 K miles well outside warranty). Or they can say - tranny is dead - replace it and we will pitch in $XXXX. Or worst, they'll say - No Love.
Id just be hopeful if I were you. No more damage can be done.
In my earlier post, I found you a used transmission - its still available. If DCT's were exploding everywhere, it be gone by now.
My hidden sublime message here is - if it all fails, get the used trans, replace it and sell the car (with good conscious that you sold it) with a working tranny. THEN buy a Ferrari with warranty if you want hassle-free experience.
I DID NOT DO A PPI. I took my chances. Sometimes I think about after market waranty - but I am able to cover most repairs myself. I have had a bad experience where a boat engine died within a month of purchase and having an extensive PPI/survey done for around $1000.
Yeah ppi doesn't catch everything but it will find a lot of things we as average joes don't think to look for or at. If I do a ppi and it still breaks then I know at least I did everything I could have to prevent buying a car with issues where as if I hadn't I would always wonder if I had done a ppi if it would have saved me. And as much as I like to think I got plenty of money I'm smart enough to know a 40k repair bill would be devastating, and would severely piss my wife off. She already tolerates high dollar equipment repairs but is able to justify the repair by the equipment making money. If my toy broke she would freak out!