simple solution for 348 slow windows

Nice very nice...gave it some tought ....can the same thing not be achieved with a normal simple relay..?? that will be only €5,-


Luuk

 

Good idea. How about you do it and let us know how you go.

 

Sort of, but only in one direction - then the fuse will blow when you try to go the other way. The box being offered here is a little more complex (though still a very simple/elegant solution IMO if the long ground wire is the cause of your slow windows) - I'm not going to reveal how (I assume) it works because I didn't think of it!!.

 

Tiny little squirrels with enough food to last throughout the warranty period?

 

I have the same issue with my Boxer-'82. Does anyone know if it is the same lift motor?

 

they HAVE to be the slowest worst working windows in the Ferrari line of all time...and they only move all of 5 inches at best, but if they DON'T work..the top can't go down which defeats the purpose of having a cabriolet in the first place...Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

 

Why dont you invest in some of these window motor booster kits? Could solve your problem here.

 

Not entirely sure about that mate. The earliest 348 is 7years newer than your Boxer. You never know, maybe they are the same window motors. If you are really keen, you can check the voltage at the window motor and see if there is a significant voltage drop that may be the issue with the slow windows on your boxer. As with NYCFERRARI, im sure that these booster kits from Frazer would be able to work on all Ferrari window motors. Unless im totally wrong? Maybe Frazer can chime in here and tell you what he thinks about using these across the Ferrari range. They are all 12volt window motors, so i assume you can use them.

 

assuming the problem is electrical vs mechanical, whether this approach will work or not depends on where in the circuit your problem is.

the window motor has two wires. Put 12V on one wire and ground on the other will create a current path and the motor will spin in one direction. Reverse the 12V/gnd connections and the motor spins the other way.

the problem is that the current path goes through the fuse box, connectors at the fuse box, doors and motor, and the window switch(es).
If any of these connections is poor or undersized, additional resistance is added to the circuit which will lower the current.

when the current is too low, the motor is starved and slows/stops.

it looks like the box is simply tying an extra path to ground onto the appropriate wire at the window motor. This will eliminate any problems with additional resistance in the ground side of the circuit, but won't help you if the problem is in the 12V side. There's a gotcha....the 12V wire is sometimes the ground wire, and vice versa.

the ground wire and the 12V wire between the motor and the window switch(es) swap depending on which way you are moving the switch, so the box can solve three problems:

1] the wire length of the ground wire (whichever one it is at the time) is adding too much resistance, though this doesn't seem likely.

2] poor ground connection between the actual ground point and the window switch(es), or some part of the ground wire is undersized for the current it needs to carry.

3] poor ground connections inside the window switches due to the size/condition of the contacts.

if my assumption about what the box is doing is correct, then the box can't help you if the problem is in the 12V side of the circuit. There's a couple ways to tell.

1] open the connectors at the window motor and measure the voltage on them when the motor is operating. Then move the ground probe to a chassis ground. If you get significantly different readings, the ground side of the circuit is adding resistance and the box will help. Make sure you test in both window directions.

2] if you don't have a voltmeter, position the window halfway up, disconnect one of the wires at the motor and ground the MOTOR wire (NOT the wire going back to the switch unless you like sparks and blown fuses). Operate the window switch and see how fast the window is. Then reconnect the wire and do the same thing with the other one. The window will go the opposite direction. If the window speed is good in both directions, the box will help.

doing #2 is effectively the same thing as the box is doing, so you can try that to see if the box would help. If not, you really have to go with something like the relay approach that has been written up before, where solid 12V and ground connections are sourced from relays controlled by the window switches.

the box would solve (or not) the same problem on the 3x8 cars, and any car that uses the 2-wire swap power/gnd window motor circuit design.

could you do the same thing with a relay or a solid state device like a triac? yup, but the guy in the uk already did the work for you, and it takes a lot of gas and beer to run a 348, so toss him your loot with the assurance that it will be well spent.

 

I was just thinking.

Why is it that it has taken over 16 years of the 348 being in existance, and one FED-UP owner for this to be solved? You would think that the factory could have come up with a viable solution to this problem, but they haven't and won't.

My thinking is that it is easier and more PROFITABLE to sell owners new units that will just fail again, to then sell them another one that will just fail again, and so on.

This is a problem that does not only plague 348 owners, but just about all Ferrari's with power windows. Piss poor design that the factory could give a rats-ass about fixing. This isn't the ONLY electrical problem that we have. There is the horrible design of the STUPID cat ecu's. Then we have the problem with the climate control unit flashing error codes. Or how about the problems with the temperature sensors. Oh and then there is the problem with the O2 sensors going out, or how about the constant alternator failures?

WHEN.........will they hire someone at the factory that is a competent electrical engineer? Probably never, but we can keep our fingers crossed.

 

What are you nuts ernie? Ferrari makes 95% of their money on after sales parts and service. But seriously, the small things that annoy us about Ferrari adds character to them which we just love so much.

 

"Whachoo talkin bout Willis"

I love driving mine. I'm not to fond of having to fix the damn thing all the time.

 

My thoughts exactly. I'm going to try one on my 308QV and will report back here.

 

I took the exsisting thin wires to operate a circuit wich gives 12v and gnd from bigger wires routed from the fuse box trough an independent fuse to the motors. So i've got in all circumstances 12-14V at the motor and it runs smooth and fast. The pressure drop is on both wires the 12v and the gnd wire. Ok if you give him better ground you delete half of the pressure drop. But not all. For the cat temp i could also make something wich would last forever. Because i don't have an a/c system i don't know what could be done there.
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Samy

 

From a business standpoint, the slow windows are a tough call. New owners didn't and don't seem to be b!tching about them, for one thing, and for another thing, I'm not sure that many auto manufacturers come out with retrofit upgrades to sell to the owners of their older models.

If we owners of the used cars upgrade the windows on their own, then we have an advantage that others wouldn't have, too.

O2 sensors are wear items. They go out on everyone, even Lexus owners. The cat ecu's do need better environmental protection from heat/moisture, though.

The climate control display flashing and alternator failures seem related to a grounding issue that Ferrari itself *does* need to work out. In the meantime, extra ground straps and Stabilant 22a for me, please.

The best theoretical engineers tend to have a different approach than the more grizzled field engineers. The French had a hyper-rapid firing machine gun in WW1, for instance, at least if it never got dirty (impossible in trench warfare).

Come up with a field solution to the Ferrari issues that are both "major" as well as "common" to several models and you'll have yourself a fantastic aftermarket business opportunity, by the way.

Ferraris are rolling art; they are the trophy wives of the automotive world...both of which can appreciate the clever man in the field.

 

Well come on Samy, what are you waiting for? Get to it man! The damned cat ecu's are the worst out of everything.

 

Although I kinda agree, I'm running HyperFlow cats and have plugged to thermocouples. No sensors, no ECU's, no worries.

(Follow my lead at your own peril...)

 

This is true however they don't go out after only 15,000 miles of driving. My Acura has the ORIGINAL O2 sensor in it with over 241,000 miles on it. I didn't have to replace one of the O2 sensors on my truck (OBD2) until around 110,000. The other three sensor that are on it now are original and I have 195,000 miles on them, AND it just passed the California rolling dyno smog test with flying colors, AND on the original cats!

Yeah the O2 sensor are "wear" items, but not every 15k or there about.

 

I suspect that the box contains a pair of relays. Each relay has it's coil connected to one window wire thru a diode, and the other end of the coil is connects to ground. The relay's contacts connect the other wire to ground when closed.

Whichever wire has 12V on it actuates that wire's relay which firmly grounds the other wire.

Elegant actually...

 

OK, point taken!

 

Unfortunately i throw the ferrari engine out of my engine bay so i don't have the cat ecu problem and because of that no intention on developing such a thing. And i also don't work with ferraris on bussiness so i also don't have the customers for such a thing. But if there is an large interesst in such a thing i could think about it. I would make an µC ecu for both engine banks with two Typ K thermocouples mounted beneth the engine ecus and that shouldn't make a problem ever. Also if such a think would be made it would be easy to attach an digital display to that ecu to display the temperatures would be only a bit more parts... but ok i don't think that such a egt gauge is realy interessting for the normal ferrari driver.

To the window problem i attached a picture
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Samy
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As an aside, do you think the HyperFlow cats run any cooler than OEM cats... it would be nice if they ran almost as cool as a test pipe (I know, wishful thinking).

 

Yes, if the exhaustbackpressure is lowered the exhaust gas temperature will go down.
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Samy

 

30% more airflow in a HyperFlow. I assume they run much cooler. If I were smart (I'm not), I would have measured temps in my test pipes before fitting my HyperFlows.

Yes folks, I tossed out my test pipes and installed HyperFlow cats. No loss of sound, no loss of power.


(now, back to our thread about windows.... I'm anxiously waiting for my window modules to arrive from bric-a-brac-jack! )

 

Did you stay with the Ferrari 5 speed transmission or use something else?