simple solution for 348 slow windows

Sorry, typo. Should have read "couldn't really see a difference"

 

You are on the right path there Chris. The Auto-elec at my work suggested that to do the job properly, you would run another 12v power supply to the window motor and another good earth wire also. I told him how these kits helped my windows and told him what was in the box. He said thats a great way to do it, but told me to run the 12v power from a good power source to the motor,(with another earth wire) for even better window performance. But im extremely happy with the speed of the windows now and will not worry about it i think as it cant get much quicker than they are now.

 

NOW, someone tell me how to get my A/C fan blower motor to turn like hell....I posted a thread about wanting to increase fan blower speed for the A/C....maybe bric/brac can rip into that & give me a viable solution...if not I believe I am taking the fan motor out & getting it rewound to make the squirrel cage spin like hell!!
I am all for input....I really think max fan speed is about half of that of a normal car...take your normal car out in the 100 degree heat & reduce fan to half volume of air flow... it too will suck.
Anyhow great work on windows, I do not hafta make excuses for them anymore
Chris

 

My 85 QV windows are so slow its almost tearful!

Any 308 results yet? Where can I purchase, whats the price with shipping to MD/DC?

I had one chick say "beautiful car but obvioulsy it has issues"!

Hmmm, I wonder how the windows worked in the taxi she caught home?

 

Fitted mine today, absolutely first class!!

Many thanks Frazer for the rapid delivery and your work on getting these made, my passenger side window was painfully slow, not anymore.

By the way, your 348 looks gorgeous aswell.

Good work fella.

 

Just wanted to thank Frazer again. I drove my 348 again today and the windows performed excellently. Cheers again mate.

 

How much does it speed up the windows?

 

Atleast by 50% and then some

 

I have one that's probably already been delivered for my 308QV, but I've been travelling. I plan to be installing it this weekend and will provide results and any "different" instructions and/or pics necessary for the 308 series.

 

That was on the LH (passenger side) window. My car is RHD. The drivers side was only a slight improvement in speed. The big winner was LH window.

 

Very good. Would be great to see some results for the 3X8 boys.

 

So is there a simple way for us rednecks to get these and pay in US dollars??? I am looking to get some whenever they are available.
BT

 

Bill -

I was going to buy a bunch and resell at Ricambi. After hearing some of the comments here, I'm not sure I'm prepared for the wrath/scorn of people who'd rather buy the parts and assemble them themselves. I would think a retail price of $75/ea would be where I place them. That would basically cover purchase + transport + duty into the U.S., and leave me a little money left as profit. (Heaven forbid!)

I have this module in my car, and it works perfectly.

 

Put me down for three at $75 if you want to resell them. Let me know if you decide to go ahead with 'operation fast glass'.
BT

 

Looking forward to it. I ordered some for my 328 and would very much welcome any forsight you can offer.

Regarding price: I think it's almost shameful that people take issue with price here. These are F-cars, and presumably F-car WORTHY owners. This is probably one of the cheapest fixes to any Ferrari problem, and people are reverse engineering them? Unreal.

 

Totally agree. But:

1st - check wiring is not physically damaged at each connector on both sides.

2nd - get these boxes.

By solving a major problem/hassle on these cars I'd have been prepared to pay £100 a box for these or even more. I have a receipt for over £500 Ferrari charged one of the PO owners to try and resolve the window issue. Didn't even find the broken wire in the door.

The price of these boxes are cheap as chips at the moment, I don't give a hoot how much the composite parts cost. A lot of effort has been put in the make these a nice easy to install unit, not to mention sealed from the weather. Inside a door isn't the driest place on earth and these units look like they'll last a long, long time - more than I can say for the door connectors!!

 

I used paypal, whole transaction took about 30 seconds, paypal does the currency exchange. You do have to sign up (very easy).....

 

I'm going to predict that it will make no noticable difference on the drivers side, and may or may not be noticible on the passenger side. If it makes a big difference, then it's just bypassing the real problem.

Since interest is high for 3x8 application of these boxes, I pulled the passenger door panel on my 328 and got out the voltmeter. I should also add that my windows work fine (up in about 4-5 seconds). The passenger side slows down noticably when the window hits the door seal, but not enough to stall the motor. Also, the windows will close with the engine off, but are faster when the alternator is outputting and seal has a much smaller effect.

The following only applies to the 328. The 308 has diffferent/simpler door switch wiring.

on the 328, both window motors get their ground connection from the drivers side door. The schematic says it's literally in the door, rather than coming through the cabling from the dash. I didn't pull the drivers side panel to check, though.

The motors get +12V through two different fuse box connectors, relays and fuses

scenario 1: both windows are slow, regardless of switch used

Since the 12V supplies are separate, the likely problem is the ground in the drivers side door. However, overall low 12V supply due to other issues would be most apparent at the windows.

Installing a box in the drivers side door would only help if the problem was the ground connection (black wires) in the door that connect the switches to ground, and the box would have to be providing a ground path for the passenger window when the drivers side switch is at the default position to effect the passenger window.

scenario 2:drivers window slow, passenger ok, regardless of switch used

• the ground wire going to the drivers window switch is bad
• the drivers switch is cruddy. swap it with one of the others to see
• the 12V supply to the switch is bad

The box will help if the ground wire or the ground connection through the switch is bad, and won't do anything about the 12V supply.

scenario 3:drivers window ok, passenger slow, regardless of switch used

this is somewhat normal, because the ground circuit for the passenger window motor has to go through a bunch of connections and the drivers side passenger window switch. Each connector/switch will add a small amount of resistance and possibly act as a current limiter.

with the alternator outputting, I get around 13.6V at the fuse box. Attaching a voltmeter across the two motor wires at the passenger motor, I get 12.8V when window is going down, and 12.2V when it's going up. The various connections, along with the inherent wire resistances, have the net effect of dropping the voltage 0.8-1.4V.

when attaching the passenger motor directly to ground in the passenger door (removing 8' of wire and a bunch of connections from the circuit), I get 13.1V down and 12.7V up. This is what the box will do for you. The effect is not significant on my car.

conclusion

installing a box in the drivers side is not going to matter. If it does, fixing the ground connection in the door and/or cleaning the window switch contacts would give the same result.

installing a box in the passenger door does provide a more direct ground for the motor. It removes resistance added by the motor connector, two door<->dash connectors, and the drivers side passenger window switch, plus about 8' of wire (the wire itself is good for about 0.15V drop assuming 14 gauge wire). I measured about 0.5V drop along the entire ground path.

someone mentioned earlier that the problem is the number and resistance/current capacity of the connections. That makes sense. If just one of the connections is marginal, the effect is huge.

while I've been babbling voltages above, in the end it's all about current. That's why the windows are supplied by separate 12V circuits on different fuses. If you open/close both windows at the same time, you'd overload a single circuit.

I also measured the current draw of the motor. Note that this is without the door panel on, which reduces the drag and therefore lowers the current needed a little. Going down, the motor pulls around 4.5A. Going up, around 6.5A. When the window reaches the door seal, though, the current jumps up to about 9A - though without the door panel there's more resistance at the seal. At motor stall time, the current spikes to over 14A.

additional mechanical resistance to the window movement is going to tax the ability of the circuit to supply the necessary current.

to box or not to box

if the symptom was the passenger window being slow, and testing revealed that disconnecting a wire at the motor connector and grounding it to the door improved the situation, the choice is either install the box, or chase down the problem in the ground wire through the connectors into the drivers side door. Installing the box is quicker/easier.

installing the box in the passenger door also eliminates a possible problem circuit, so it's beneficial no matter what. I don't know what the current handling ability of the various connector pins is, but removing them from the passenger circuit can only help.

installing the box in the drivers side door doesn't buy you much...mainly just avoids a current limiting problem that could be caused by a dirty ground contact inside the drivers switch. Not worth installing the box for this, imho.

fine print

time to go stock up on the scotch that I'll be downing when someone installs in both 328 doors and the windows shoot up in 2 seconds. If you're in the sfbay area, are have window problems and buy these, I'd be interested in watching/helping install them and doing some diagnostics to see what is going on. pm me...I'll bring my diploma and matches.

 

This stuff is pretty simple.

On a 348 with grounds criss-crossing the car, shortening the ground/circuit will help. Having shorter feeds will help again. Increasing the wire thickness will help too. Removing the door connectors and hard wiring will help.

No rocket science here. Question is, how far do you want to go?

 

Manual, hand cranked windows would be my personal preference.

 

lol - me too!

Actually I want to get some Lexan windows made for mine, mirroring the Michelotto GTC's. Only tricky bit seems to be fabricating a frame to hold the lexan and still keep water out/seal against the door seal. Bit too complicated for me.

 

What an excellent post!
Would have been even more excellent had you posted it a week ago,
before I ordered two for my 328.

Because the above is my predicament I am hopeful the passenger side will improve.
As for the driver's side.....anyone want a single unit? Cheap? PM me.

 

Wes -

I'll give you your full price for it. PM me and I'll send PayPal.

 

Will do, when they arrive.
Thanks!