"Singer" Ferrari

Won't be a real Ferrari.

A Singer is not a real Porsche.

 

Agree, but it is very beautiful, isn't it?

 

Also agree...

 

I had a chance to see the singer porsche and talked to the creative director at Singer in Monterey this year. To say that the car is amazing is an understatement. I think the few people who update their current 308's with engine mods/suspension upgradess would really like a singer type update. I think they did everything right to maintain the original look and feel of the car visually. Not sure how it drives but expect it would drive as well as a modern day car with the engine and suspension upgrades.

An update to the 308 could be great for the few who could/would pay the $$$ to purchase it. But it is still a replica of an original and that is always a tough stigma to overcome.

 

I'd like to see something done at that quality level. I think a 308 done up that way would look fantastic.

 

I'm a bigger fan of what Singer has done under the skin of their cars. Replacing a traditional wire harness and fusebox with Raychem wire, motorsport connectors and using a PDU and updating the suspension. I would go with narrower RS flares and the old H1 headlamps. I like a more vintage exterior look.

The early 911 modifiers have been upgrading to 84-89 Carrera parts for quite awhile so there is a template of sorts to follow. The 308/328 has never had that.

 

I don't even know what you guys are talking about.

 

I dont know if I would go so far as to say the Singer is a replica. I think its a very tastefully modified, and well packaged tuner. I guess the 308s have something similar with MAT and their rally cars.

 

Singer Vehicle Design

Yahoo!

Postmodern Porsche: 911 Singer - Automobile Magazine

 

Singer 911
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That is NOT a Singer, this is a Singer...a most beautiful 1934 Singer Le Mans...

I know what a Singer is, I own 2 of them that park next to and on top of my 360 (dont worry, the 360 is not harmed, the 34 1.5 litre is merely on the lift above the 360). That is NOT a Singer, that is a fancy Porsche
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a Singer is a real "Porsche", just highly modified & improved upon, and a similarly modified 308 would be exactly that, an improved and modified "Ferrari" ...no one said this was a "restoration" project idea

these are of course, technically "hot rods", and all the better for it, think of them as such, and not a restoration purist exercise

with the 911 it works because so many generations of parts intermix & so the 'best' components + custom made parts, can be readily used together, and that is the beauty of the Singer idea, as I'm sure you'll agree

to me, a 308 of a similar idea, would be somewhere between a rally spec 308 and a 288 GTO, with many modern components used

it would be easy to just say that use all aftermarket & custom made components, but that IMO strays from the Singer idea, which was/is to use as many OEM components, the best of, as possible first

the only issue is, that all 911 demand a steep price currently, is due to popular demand, but the 308 is still somewhat forlorn in that regard, and valuable only to some which appreciate it, meaning that the excessive cost that goes into making a Singer, and which it can demand in purchase, is not necessarily possible with a (perceived older Ferrari) 308

I think it is a great personal project idea, in fact there are one or two such threads here, with personal project 308, suspension improvements, 4.0L stroker engines, ITB conversions, custom billet OEM looking wheels, etc.

I've actually thought about & written out how I'd like to do just such a build for myself
doing maintenance on my (late) uncle's 308 was for me something of a bonding experience LOL, so the 308 remains a favorite for me, and so why this is an intriguing idea!


so what items, might be included in such a build?

well, first is not unlike the Singer approach, to identify the strengths & weakness's of the 308 platform specifically, then construct an encompassed idea of the finished product desired

that of course is wholly dependant upon intended budget, so let's say generally equal to the Singer asking price of $200,000


strengths:
- reasonably light weight & compactness
- beautiful Pininfarina body design
- compact drivetrain (evolved from previous Dino 246 model) & cast aluminum construction
- decent handling & mid-engine configuration
- later model multi-valve cylinder head design
- early model composite bodywork
- later 348/355 & 288 GTO & F40 models evolved from

weakness':
- outdated steel ladder frame design (compared to monocoque or aluminum construction)
- later model steel bodywork (weight)
- transverse engine/drivetrain (longitudinal superior & more straight forward plumbing)
- expensive parts
- not most efficient aerodynamics at high speeds (nose lift, minimal rear downforce)
- narrow bodywork for wider tire fitment
- poor build/design quality in some areas & resulting reliability/failure issues


build concept:
- keep intact the basic body cohesive shape of the 308 model, as designed by Pininfarina, without garish flared panels or pedestal wings at all
- retain the basic chassis and V8 drivetrain layout of OEM 308
- retain theme of lightweight & naturally aspired power
- increase drivability & performance efficiency through use of modern technologies where applicable
- reduce both sprung & unsprung weight as much as possible, to maximize power-to-weight ratio
- design for maximum centralized weight placement, and lowest center of gravity, in all component placements
- keep overall early model style & appearance (in general) of 308 model
- keep mechanical driving control systems, no clutchless/paddle shifter or overly computerized drivers aides
- increase driver comfort and ergonomics to modern levels (as possible)
-


my own personal ideas for such a project, are more in keeping as close to the pure (uncluttered) OEM early 308 GTB styling as possible, some others ideas may differ, but that's okay too, these are mine


bodywork / underbody:
- as modern update to early model fiberglass Berlinetta coupe (no sunroof or removable GTS panel), and longer (328) 92.5" wheelbase
- remade/remolded all major body panels, using auto-clave cured carbon-fiber composite material, for reduced weight & allows all features integrated in single panels (rather than as attachments)
- QV style vented (slats) front bonnet hood, with directed channels within to best vent front radiator & headlamp vented (slats) to directly vent wheel well high pressure air (and increase front downforce)
- wheel well flares similar to groupe/rally 308 cars, but more subtle/integrated, just enough to accommodate wider tires both front & rear (not 288 GTO nor Koenig style bulged fenders style)
- no side (sill) skirts
- deeper front air-dam like euro/QV style, for improved downforce, with incorporated subtle splitter leading edge
- enlarged/racked version of integrated rear deck wing, similar to 288 GTO but more subtle, for improved downforce
- no active aero components (weight savings)
- early model 308 style Vitaloni style side mirrors (black)
- short euro style bumpers, front & rear, remolded in carbon-fiber for lighter weight & strength & made smoother/better fitment
- fully flat/smooth underbody, from air-dam leading edge, to rear engine tray, body/suspension rake determines slight rake of underbody for downforce effect
- no side markers/reflectors added to fenders sides, but instead hidden flush mounted into body waist line (black recess) for most clean exterior appearance possible
- no rear engine cover high mounted 'basket handle'
- 3/4 window slat panels removed/replaced with single piece flush mounted Perspex curved windows, like 288 GTO style, serving as air inlets for engine (rear quarters modified to similar as 288 intakes there)
- rear engine lid with 288 GTO style flat panel, with increased amount of venting (slats) for cooling of engine bay
- retain pop-up headlamp, remolded pods in carbon-fiber (auto-clave cured) for light weight, and HID lamps in reflector style crystal clear housings
- tail lamp and signal/marker/interior lights, all replaced with LEDs
- custom wiring harness, with high grade wiring & modern fuse panels, for best quality & light weight with reliability
- tailor designed heat shield material & sound deadening, for cabin lining, with lowest weight considered
-


chassis / suspension / steering:
- light weight tubing spec as used in F40 frame, highest quality welding and additional gussets added at every intersection of tubing joints, for maximum torsional strength, and powder coated (black)
- carbon-fiber panels (some with honeycomb core where necessary), auto-clave cured for structural strength, bonded and riveted in place to tubing chassis, for maximum frame torsional strength & light weight (similar to F40 technique, but better)
- flat/smooth structural underbody panels, bonded & riveted to frame tubing, for structural strength, and smooth full underbody tray
- fabricated rear diffuser (limited size) which incorporates 'some' diffuser effect in upsweep, and enclosed rear exhaust (muffler), to look similar to OEM 308 exhaust cage externally
- integrated roll cage as design of chassis, for maximum roof/crush protection, while increasing strength of chassis
- redesign chassis to accommodate use of firewall/bulkhead shape fuel cell, for more centralized weight distribution (like 348/355), supplier designs exist of bladder style cell for narrow & angled firewall/bulkhead space
- redesign chassis tubing arrangement, to replicate 355 Challenge suspension pickups locations & geometry (adjusted for 92.5" wheelbase), and use the 355 lightweight (and stronger) control arms, and 355 Challenge manual steering rack, lighter than power steering, faster ratio
- custom multiple-adjustable Ohlin shocks/struts/springs, alloy body with height adjustable spring, for light weight & custom configuration of package with extensive R&D testing
-

drivetrain:
- retain Tipo series V8 engine, possibly F40 block (for added strength), or better (?) 355 Challenge engine, with new high grade steel liners for maximum cylinder bore allowed & longer stroke crank, with aim of minimum 4.0L displacement, titanium beam connecting rods & custom high compression forged pistons, dry-sump system with optimised pickup(s), and oil tank located in (former fuel tank) adjacent location, protected by high grade lines and protective C-F panels from exhaust header system
- 355 Challenge series 5 valve-per-cylinder heads, professional ported&polished, Inconel & titanium valve train components, for lightest weight possible (high RPM ability), best grade guides (pinned) to prevent failure
- custom molded & auto-clave cured carbon-fiber belt covers (for strength & protection, while light weight)
- tunable Motronic ECU injection & ignition system, for custom configuration of package through extensive R&D testing
- custom carbon-fiber (auto-clave cured) air intake stacks & air-boxes (like DTM, LeMans challenge cars, etc.) to maximize air intake length + air volume needed & reduce overall height of engine (under flat engine panel) that strictly vertical would be to tall otherwise
- custom equal length & high-flow Inconel tubing exhaust headers, highest grade tubing & welding used (lighter than stainless steel) & custom capristo or tubi style compact titanium muffler (for lightest weight/lowest placement possible & compliance with noise regulations), and custom Inconel tubing mimicking OEM quad tips
- Xtrac transverse 6 speed (single clutch) transaxle, for longitudinal engine orientation, but minimal bell housing distance, allows custom gearing (cassette style) of package through extensive R&D testing, with hydraulic clutch pedal/servo system, to retain manual transmission (not paddle shift) operation
-

brakes/wheels/tires:
- dual master brake cylinders, with balance bar (for modulation), and adjustable bias, for custom tuning of package through R&D testing
- bremo carbon-ceramic rotors and caliper system from 430 scuderia or 458 model (?), for light weight (vs comparable steel) unsprung weight & braking ability
- custom designed billet (aluminum or magnesium?) wheels, for lightest weight possible & specific high-offset specs, and widest tires able fitted, in style of OEM 308 traditional 5 spoke design (or rally 308 star spoke style?), in most likely 18 or 19 inch, to clear brakes and accommodate low profile tires
- best grip & wide tread tires fitted, possibly 235 & 295 widths
-

interior:
- mostly stock appearance interior, with modern materials & construction possible, carbon-fiber (auto-clave cured) dash and door panels custom molded & covered in leather (synthetic for lighter weight)
- driver's seating & controls, redesigned from current model cars dimensions, for best driver ergonomics
- multi-adjustable steering column (from 355 or newer)
- modern digital gauges, but in circular settings like OEM 308 dash
- lightweight C-F seats (430 scuderia base?), re-covered to more traditional (308) pleated (Daytona/288) style
-


colours: (my own personal preference )
- body in darker shade of Ferrari Rosso Corsa, bumpers black (satin), venting/slats on hoods in body (Rosso) colour
- interior in primarily traditional tan leather, dash board black leather, door panels/pulls & seats in tan leather, floor/firewall black
- chassis/frame in black (powder coated & C-F)
- brake calipers dark grey or black powder coated (so don't look to modern)
- engine/transmission & cast metal components in clear coated natural finish colour(s)
- wheels, natural/brushed aluminum if billet 308 OEM stlye (not polished nor chromed), or if rally 308 star-spoke style, then magnesium/gold colour
-

 

agreed and well stated. I really like the singer and truly appreciate what they have created.

 

That would be amazing IMO, as would be several other 'Singer' updates. Personally I would love to see 355GTS Singer, with a body panels made of carbon fiber, more power, bigger brakes etc. I hope the company branches out and does the same thing with various Ferraris. I think James May put it best when talking about the Singer concept "This is something very special, it's like a love letter to a car."

 

A singer style Dino would be awesome. Too bad the prices on those are crazy.

 

Wow love where you are going with this, have been thinking a bit along these same lines myself as it would be a fantastic ride and a 308 is a car that no one is going to get too upset about it being worked over like this. However, I think that Singers cost a lot more than 200k USD. I would also be surprised if you could achieve all of what you have listed for said 200K.

 

If you're building a custom car, why not make it a custom car, instead of something that looks like an old car?

Resto-mods are either a severe case of neurosis or a case of intrusive regulation.

Either it's too difficult to register a car you can't mythically pass off as a "'32 Chrysler", or people are just afraid to be different.

Or a little of both.

Most of today's car companies started out as someone thinking, "I can build a better one", and building something new.
Why build something "new" pretending to be something "old"?

Would anyone have heard of Lamborghini if he'd put an old Ferrari body kit on it?

 

5th Gear just had a Singer on - Tiff Nedell drove it and was impressed. I has a combo of retro look and feel, with modern reliablity & extra power & handling.

I think the 308/ 328 series is a great candadate for this kind of work... I wold love it.

Larger engine - 3.5L or more - perhaps a supercharger.

updated wiring & engine management
updated electrics - updated AC
power seats w. better support
power steering - speed sensitive etc...
beef up suspension
and subtle flares for wider wheels & tires - use HRE classics...


all i can say is Yummy! would love it. agressive stance etc... it would be a hot car, and have the real Ferrari look & feel

 

Someone build a 355 with a 430 drivetrain. Thanks.

 

IMO Ferrari already built a "Singer' 308. It is call the 288 GTO.

 

Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

Cool! do they cost 300k too?

 

Gooding and Company just auctioned off one at Pebble in August for over $1.5M.

 

I saw that. I remember thinking: modern handling, 500 BHP, ...
... bench seats, and no seat belts.

Danger, Will Robinson.


I remember cars of that vintage. You could get away with bench seats because those old machines wouldn't corner worth a durn.
My dad had a '65 New Yorker with the drivetrain from a SuperBird in it. It'd surprise the heck out of people leaving a stop light.
But the bench seats were a problem in a car operating above it's "pay grade".
No collapsing steering column. No padded wheel. The car was fast, but it was dangerous.