So I was thinking where might be a better place for a ski apt I lived at tahoe in Incline for 5 yrs in the 90s. Skiing was great, night life, not so great So how is the skiing at Aspen ? how does the town compare to the towns around Tahoe ? are there any lake views at Aspen or all mountain views ? and of course, which is more car friendly ? Tahoe has a new race track close by in Reno, any tracks near Aspen ?
Aspen. it looked good in Dumb and Dumber. "Swanson... Simpson... Simmonds... Samsonite!! I was way off!"
No lake views that I recall around Aspen. All mountain. That's the one thing going for Lake Tahoe. Love the snow-capped mtn reflections off the lake on a nice sunny day....... Skiing is great at Aspen. Night life is a lot better also, IMHO. But you can't gamble like South Lake Tahoe. Wouldn't know about car friendly. But Aspen has a good free shuttle to the other three ski areas, Buttermilk, Aspen Highlands, & Snowmass. The roads are not winding or narrow like the drive around Tahoe.
I live in Aspen. Lots of great cars. Several Ferraris. 2 Enzos that I know of. Lots and lots of Porsche's. Some Astons and Bently's. We also have a sports car club... Aspen racing and Sports Car Club. A paved 1.1 mile track. Great skiing. Great looking women. No gambling. If Tahoe were better, I'd move there. I was born in California, but like Colorado better. Not so crowded. It is a matter of opinion. This is mine. PNH 2002 F360 F1 SPIDER
Tahoe has decent skiing and gambling, but the key advantage is that you can use the Nevada side for tax purposes. Aspen has better skiing, no gambling, but much better night life if you are single. Key advantage is that the demand for properties in Aspen is pretty well recession proof.
There is some recreational boating at Reudi resevior near Aspen. The racetrack is private and (IMHO) pricey (- Phil might know more about this?). I really like the feel of the town and the nightlife is fantastic - bars, restaurants, theater all first rate. Skiing is pretty good all winter. Parking is occasionally a problem in the winter, but the town is small and easy to walk through. Other than skiing, I don't spend a lot of time in Aspen anymore. Wife and I will go for an evening once in a while. As you would expect, everything is expensive compared with where I live 40 miles North. Let me know if I can tell you more. -m
No. We are very busy with the Music Festival in the summer. Just don't have much time to spend at the track. We may do CECA again this year. Just have to see how the schedule works out for us. PNH
One of the major advantages to living in Aspen is that you can walk everywhere so parking is not a problem. Living "down valley" (as we call it) rather than in town means you are always looking for a place to park when you come to town unless you take the excellent public transportation. Parking fees and parking fines pay for free bus and shuttle service around town. Free buses to the four ski mountains in the winter. NIGHT LIFE. We have about 20 world class restaurants in a six square block area. And another dozen or so places to eat that are good to above average. There are three sushi restaurants which are all good. "Belly Up" has band and dancing almost every night. The Ferraristi that owns this has several Ferraris including an Enzo. Too many great bars to mention. A few have live music. The Chrystal Palace is a dinner theater which is always great. The Wheeler Opera House has more concerts than we can go to. Then there is HBO Comedy Fest each March. The Aspen Jazz Festival in June. The Music Festival (clasical) circa June 20-Aug 20 each year. Also there is a film festival in the summer and winter. My dream has always been to live IN Aspen. It took me thirty years to get here and have owned a place for the last five years. We enjoy it even more than we imagined. The people are intelligent, laid back and friendly. Wearing Ferrari garb always engenders conversation as an ice breaker. People come from all over the world to Aspen. They understand and follow F1 more than your average American. Other Activities: An outdoors mecca. Jeeping. River rafting and kayaking. Gold medal trout fishing. Sailing (Aspen Yacht Club) and boating on Reudi Reservoir. Hiking. Maroon Bells is spectacular. Camping. Backpacking. Aspen Institute free lectures and Aspen Ideas Festival (June). Aspen Center for Physics with free weekly lectures summer and winter. Aspen Food and Wine Festival (mid June). Aspen Design Conference (summer). Aspen Writer's Conference (summer and winter). Paragliding. Private jets land at Aspen Airport. Being expanded for larger jets this spring. Skiing: Ther are four mountains. Buttermilk is the easiest and where the beginners go. This is great because you then don't find many snow bunnies on the other mountans. Snowmass is the biggest and has the most intermediate runs. Aspen Mountain is the most challenging and easiest to get to. Aspen Highlands is the locals favorite. Unlike Vail, we have little to no lift lines. It's like having your own private ski mountain. There is so much to do here that one cannot do it all. I attend the Aspen Institute's Great Books Series. About 20 of us read a great book each week and discuss it with the leadership of an excellent moderator. Let me know if you have any questions. The cost of living here is like San Francisco but not as high as New York. We think it's worth it. The average house in Aspen sold for $5.3 million. Condos start around $300k and go up to $5 million. Employee housing is subsidised but you have to be a lottery after living here a few years. Most workers rent or live down valley. Hope to see you in Aspen soon. Ciao PNH
PhilNotHill, I know you don't care for Vail, but as a Vail resident, I'd like to understand why. BTW, we should try to meet up. The Stradale needs some exercise. We'll just have to wait until the weather improves enough. Best, CW
I went skiing in Vail the first year since it opened in 1964. Too close to Denver = lift lines. You can always hear the trucks on the Interstate. It is condo city in a strip. Aspen is a town with mining history that dates back to the 1880s. It's not that I don't like Vail, I adore Aspen. I have always wanted to live here. I love all the cultural activies winter and summer. The old time Aspenites are some of the greatest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. Great fishing and you can walk everywhere. Best looking women I have seen anywhere. We live on a creek with total privacy and quiet. 3 blocks walk or shuttle ride to the Hotel Jerome. 2 blocks to the wine store and grocery. Hope you understand. Look forward to seeing you. We always go to the Colorado Grand in Vail before the cars get dirty. Ciao PNH
Phil, Sometimes I hate Fchat. I had typed up a long reply, clicked to post it and the system had logged me out. I tried to back to the previous page to copy my work so that I could paste it into a new page after I had re-logged in, and ... it was gone. Typical. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, many of which I agree with. Our principle interest was accessibility due to travel schedules, and Vail is a good compromise there. I've never felt that the things you mentioned have outweighed the positives, but, of course, to each their own. That's why there's a Vail and an Aspen. Regardless, I look forward to meeting you in person. If not at the Colorado Grand, then some other time. Best, CW
Ditto. You can see me driving around on nice days in a small yet unassuming F360 FI Spider. Red with red brake calipers. Tubi exhaust. Challenge grill. Factory modular wheels. Would like to see your CS. Never ridden in or seen one up close. Maybe we could have a drink. Problem is I used to only drink on days that end in Y. Now I only drink on days that start with T; Today and Tomorrow. PNH PS. Vail always has been and always will be a "four" letter word. Go ahead, count them. Sorry. Also, Aspen is unaVAILable to people in Eagle county. Remember: It's just another lousy day in Paradise. (Jimmy Buffet has a place here and puts on a great show with his band every December.) Now have a great day!
Sat 02/10/2007 07:00PM MST Folks often apply the term "Aspenization" to a glut of trophy homes, ritzy development, big-city attitudes and upscale snobbery that affects some rural Western communities. But the new documentary "Resorting to Madness," which explores the ramifications of resort development and skyrocketing property values in ski towns, portrays the Aspen area and Aspen Skiing Co. as leaders in protecting community character and the environment. Sorry, Vail. In this film, "Vailization" would be an apt term for unmitigated growth, with its widespread faux-Bavarian village model of ski-related development. "Resorting to Madness" is the first film from ski-industry veterans Hunter Sykes and Darren Campbell (who co-wrote and co-directed the piece) and their California-based production company, Coldstream Creative. The documentary surveys the struggles of mountain communities around the country, attempting to determine their present and future character in the face of the homogenizing, gentrifying force of big skiing corporations and private developers. With a limited supply of skiers to go around, the film argues that many ski companies and associated businesses are focusing more on amenities and upscale development to out-compete one another and bring in fat profits above and beyond comparatively measly lift-ticket revenues. Affordable housing, wildlife habitat, and clean air and water are all casualties of the ensuing growth. The film features interviews with planners, thinkers, politicians, ski industry officials, and citizens who are tackling growth-related problems in resort towns. Vail appears onscreen as the prime example of a ski resort with the worst kind of development. The resort buys up or pushes out local businesses, influences public lands policy decisions and the reversal of scientific opinions about wildlife habitat at a federal level, and links up sub-par terrain (now only an amenity to the main attraction of luxury hotels and McMansions) at Bachelor Gulch with upscale real-estate development on land set aside as wildlife habitat by the resort itself. "We really hammer Vail," laughed Sykes, who taught skiing and snowboarding in the Vail area for 12 years. But Vail is certainly not alone, he added. Growing resort communities all have similar problems, some just handle them better and more proactively. Aspen and SkiCo appear prominently in the list of resort areas acting aggressively to protect the environment and community character. SkiCo environmental director Auden Schendler discusses the company's purchase of wind power to offset 100 percent of its associated electricity use. He also talks about SkiCo's efficient building program, and its employee supported environmental foundation, which funds environmental projects around the valley. The film also lauds the local affordable housing program, which is among the best in the country, and the extensive public transit system. The rest of the list of ski-area good guys includes Sundance in Utah, and nonprofits, citizens, and officials in Whistler, B. C., Jackson, Wyo., Truckee, Calif., and the Mad River Valley in Vermont. The bottom-line take is that communities have the power to determine their present and future character through zoning and other measures. The film implores citizens to get involved. "This was something that needed to be said," Sykes explained. "We've lived in these places, complained about the problems, but never did anything." Sykes hopes the film will make it to Aspen in March, and is currently seeking venues in the Roaring Fork Valley. The film will also appear in Breckenridge, Crested Butte, Boulder, Golden, Durango, Steamboat Springs, Alamosa and other communities around Colorado [email protected]
Not as far as I know! BTW, white out here in Vail today! There are good points made, and there's always the risk that a big corporate owner like Vail Resorts or SkiCo will take over the show. Unfortunately, the locals have noone to blame but themselves for letting it happen. However, Vail Resorts has also done a lot for the town and community. Possibly the most important change that is going on is a transition from a holiday resort to a year-round community. This has created lots of friction and as expanstion continues down valley (along with Vail's $1B+ renovation), I think there will be continued power struggles. Unfortunately, Vail's charm may be at risk. While I believe that Vail Resorts has done a lot of good things, they are self-interested, of course. Wall Street is pushing for earnings, and VR has to find ways to meet that demand. Lift tickets won't do it. This creates a temptation for VR to steamroll over locals. Moreover, private developers have also pushed hard and won. Vail's latest approval was for Solaris, which will redevelop Crossroads. Noone would deny that Crossroads needs this, but the scale of the proposed development was overkill. It took a long time for the development to wind its' way through the approval process, which was very contentious. However, it was finally approved, to my mild dismay. I think residents will be surprised by the magnitude of the development and will regret their decision to approve it. However, there are numerous projects that have added value. There are current hotel projects including the Vail Plaza Hotel, The Lodge, The Four Seasons and the recently completed Sonnenalp project that will spruce up the lodging accomodations. Condo construction is also booming with One Willow Bridge, Solaris, Arrabelle, and VR's mountainside townhouse project. This is in addition to the single family home developments at Bachelor Gulch, Cordillera, Mountain Star and Arrowhead, among others, of course. Unlimited development is not a good thing, so we'll have to see how it all plays out. Regardless, Vail continues to be one of the top ranked, if not the top ranked, resorts in the world. In my opinion, it does offer the complete package (except for the shopping, which Aspen has...although, I suspect many of the Aspen boutiques are money losers, and they're just there for the "far-stucking" factor). There are mountains with more challenging terrain. There are resorts that have a more rustic, western feel (as opposed to Vail's European designs). BUT, for my money, I think Vail has a good balance. CW
Thanks , CW, for your incisive comments. SkiCo in Aspen is family owned and not answerable to Wall Street. They appear to be plowing their profits back into improving the mountains every year. Witness the gondola new this year at Snowmass. They put new cars in the Aspen Mountain (Ajax) gondola last summer. I have heard the rent on commercial property in downtown Aspen is at least $12k-$14k per month. Hard to make it unless you own your own building and bought it years ago IMHO. The skiing in Aspen or Vail is plenty tough for me. You won't find me skiing off of cliffs like so many do here. But it is so darn convenient. The Galena Street Shuttle which runs every 10 minutes picks up across the street and takes you to the Aspen gondola. A 5 minute ride. Or you can stay on for two more blocks and catch the buses to the 3 other mountains. Like you, we are getting a big dump of snow today. As the snowboarders say, it's really "sick" on the mountain today. We got 5 inches last night and it is still coming down pretty hard. Have you seen the T-shirt that says, "If Skiing was easy, the'd call it snowboarding."? ha Now have a great day. Dr. Phil
