slop in steering (real or imagined) | FerrariChat

slop in steering (real or imagined)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by chris marsh, Oct 21, 2007.

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  1. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2005
    5,767
    Detroit
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    Chris Marsh
    Looking for opinions.

    Ever since I hit a curb a year ago I'm just not happy with my steering. I had it aligned twice by a local frame shop, still wasn't happy, took it to local Ferrai dealer for alignment, told still didn't seem right, they said it is fine. Replaced all suspension bushings and it just doesn't feel rightr to me.

    Last time I took it to track day it seemed I was turning more and more as the day progressed but could that be tires??? Seems to have less slop with the street tires than with th R compounds.

    I'm seriously thinking about replacing the steering rack. Is this the right way to go?
     
  2. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,150
    way north california
    Full Name:
    chris morse
    Hi Chris,

    What happens when you get the car off the ground and run the steering from lock to lock?? Is it smooth?? If it doesn't appear to be skipping a tooth at some particular point, I am having a hard time with failing the rack. If it had a broken tooth on the rack, i would guess that at some point the rack would skip a tooth, resulting in a big discontinuity in input/output on center or wherever the rack was when you impacted. So, porbably not the rack.

    If the impact had broken the bearing surface in the ball joint(s), rack bushings, mounts, a arm bushings, wheel bearings, or tierod ends, I would think that the alignment guys would pick this up as play, prior to doing the alignment. If a shim were rattled loose, i would expect them to find it.

    Having had the car aligned twice, i am skeptical that any of the above are the culprit.

    I haven't enough alignment experience to predict the effect of a slight tweek in the frame, but i am leaning in that direction, since it has been aligned by some competent shops twice.

    Keep us posted,
    chris
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,266
    socal
    even manual racks can loose tolerance and require rebuilding. You can also loose the bushing that hold the rack especially if the anchors are not tight and you hit lots of the same bump over and over on the track. I have even ended my day with the steering wheel pointed in another direction to go straight. The alignment was not knocked off the rack position was! I doubt your dealer changed the rack bushing otherwise he would have had to take the rack out and then you would have told you to rebuild it before he put it back in. Its like doing a major and not changing your water pump.
     
  4. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
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    maurice T
    Has the rack been overhauled?The bush in the passenger side of the rack usually wears.Jack the front of the car up and jiggle the passenger wheel from left to right.If there is play there you will see it.On my car the tie rod arm would move up and down as the bush was worn oval.I have overhauled the rack and have recoed all the suspension and it made a huge difference
     
  5. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
    I would measure the right and left side distance between the front and rear wheels and be sure they are the same. As long as the frame is straight I would also suspect the steering rack. They do get worn out, although in your case I would be checking for damage.

    Ken
     
  6. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Veteran
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    Aug 30, 2005
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    I don't quite understand what your saying here. I think your saying if there is A-arm damage it might have changed distance between wheels??? Is that correct. I was also worried hitting the curb may have changed caster which is something I did not see on the alignment reports. How important is caster?

    When I jack car up steering turns freely from side to side. Seem I can detect a little play in the wheel but very little like maybe 1/32 of an inch. Is this enough to give me a problem?

    I have adjusted toe-in myself to see if that would help. I have run from 1/8 inch toe in which is recomended to 0 toe-in in the front which is where the car is at now. I think i'll try more toe-in before I order a new rack.
     
  7. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth

    I'm just saying to be sure everything is square to begin with. Sort of like checking tire pressures before you do an alignment.

    Ken
     
  8. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Veteran
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    Aug 30, 2005
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    I did check distance between centers on left and right. And I have used the sring metoad to set toe on front and rear tires. So everythig seem square.

    I too can't imagine what damage may have occurred to the rack by hitting a curb. I have made sure everything is still tight.

    I'll have a look at the bushings as soon as I can.

    Likely I'll just order a new rack. Where is the best palce to get one?
     
  9. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    4,232
    Norfolk - UK
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    Tony
    Get it laser aligned. I did this a few months back (£180) and the difference in handling was astonishing. Worth every penny (or cent)

    Do you feel any play in the rack ball joints (under the boots), are the arms bent?

    Any small problems will be found on the geo check.

    Tony
     
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,055
    USA
    I had an 87 328GTS with mileage around 29k and it needed a new steering rack (purchased from Ferrari UK for around $800 delivered!). New rack came with new tie rods too. I also had new rack bushings installed at the same time. Made all the difference in the world. My symptons were the car was following ruts in the freeway much too easily. I had two alignments done, but it made little difference.
     
  11. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Veteran
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    Ok now I have to ask. What are rack bushings and don't they come with the new rack?
     
  12. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Bushings that support the rack where it is secured to the car.
     
  13. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Tony
    If it didn't make a difference then it wasn't done correctly. Take it to somebody who KNOWS what they are doing.

    Any cars handling or suspension problems will show up instantly on these test rigs, it isnt rocket science. Changing the rack and or suspension bushes will affect the geometry.
     
  14. chris marsh

    chris marsh F1 Veteran
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    Aug 30, 2005
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    I was seriously thinking about replacing the rack, thought I'd call local mechanic and get a price on the install (they do all high end stuff Mercedes, Jag, Ferrari, etc). They said why don't you bring it down and let us have a look at it before you buy a rack. The last time I talked to the mechanic he said he'd would look at adjusting the shims in the rack.

    Are there shims inside the rack that provide backlash adjustment to the rack and pinion?

    I was looking at the car the night before I took it to the mechanic and did determine that there is about 45 degree play in the steering wheel. There isn't any alignment issue because the car tracks just fine. I could see about 10 degrees of the was under the dash in the splined couplings and u-joints in the steering mechanism.

    I'm going to bet everything just needs to be tightened up.
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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