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Slow Window Fix for less than $30.00

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by adsphelan, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. adsphelan

    adsphelan Karting

    Nov 11, 2005
    54
    #1 adsphelan, Jan 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just would like to thank Full for his glass of 348 slow post .
    This should work for the 308 and 355 as well with a small negative wire issue.
    I just completed my driver and passenger relays and I had over a 200% increase in motor speed in going up and over a 25% increase in going down. Here is the post. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304893&highlight=glass+348+slow

    The Relay I used is a 4 pin HEAVY DUTY SPDT 40 AMP 12V Automotive Relay.
    They are $1.99 each at ebay.
    Below is a before and after motor speed, and a how to.
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  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Nice fix. While my old 308 had slow windows, not as bad as your post, I have never had issues with either my previous 328 or my current 355. Guess I am lucky.
     
  4. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,366
    NY
    So if I am reading this correctly you splice the 2 wires into the wires going to the window motors and run the black wire to ground. So you would have 4 wires going to the window motors.
     
  5. adsphelan

    adsphelan Karting

    Nov 11, 2005
    54
    In the first picture of the installation you would cut out the plastic piece. Solder those two wires plus one of the non ground wires from the switch together. Do that same procedure to the other (plastic connection). Then add the ground wire to door bolt. That is it.
     
  6. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    I'm pretty good at mechanical stuff, but electrical stuff baffles me. I see what you did with the relays, how they were wired together. But I can't follow how you wired it into the existing system, or how it would work to speed up the motors.

    For the electrical dummies among us, me included, could you possibly do a diagram of how you wire it into the system? Something that would be easy to follow. Many thanks.
     
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  8. adsphelan

    adsphelan Karting

    Nov 11, 2005
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    #6 adsphelan, Jan 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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  10. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    #8 FerrariDublin, Jan 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
    Different issue and hope you don't mind we taking this thread in a slightly different direction for a moment?

    My drivers door window often doesn't close sweetly. Gets near the top, seems to go slightly out of alignment and stops. Repeated stabs at the switch will generally get it to close. Alternatively open the door and it normally goes up pretty easily and when door closes she slots home.

    I've put off pulling the door apart to find the problem because I'm not really sure what I'm looking for and feel that it's likely a worn part that needs replacement and that I'll only have to reassemble and tackle the job again after ordering parts.

    Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

    p.s. adsphelan, that's a lovely bit of work you've done there - not only functional but has all the quality of a factory finished installation. Well done. I haven't seen that plastic dip product before but it looks excellent.
     
  11. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    STEVE think of it this way: Each relay simply senses voltage on a motor wire. This means the other motor wire should be grounded. The relay instantly provides a ground which is 'better than' the factory wiring ground. 'Better than' meaning it most of the voltage normally eaten up by the switch and long trail of small wires can be utilized by the motor for greater speed instead.

    The ultimate in window speed requires bringing battery voltage into the door and wiring the two (slightly more expensive) relays to eliminate the other half of the voltage drop. My windows are 2 sec down and 2.5 secs up.

    But the solution given by this thread is quite adequate, cheap, and simple, thus elegant. Plus that tool goop suggestion for waterproofing is great.
     
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  13. adsphelan

    adsphelan Karting

    Nov 11, 2005
    54
    #10 adsphelan, Jan 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. 4re308

    4re308 F1 Rookie

    Jun 13, 2001
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    This is a great post. The windows are slow on the 308 and the Mondial. I will have my tech look into this and get it done. :)
     
  15. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
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    The purpose of the relay is to save the switch by not having to route high voltage or amperage through the switch. The switch instructs the relay to open or close, and the relay lets a full 12v (in the case of a car) and whatever amp is required through to the window motor.

    But I've read and re-read this thread, and continue to have the same question....

    Why two relays? Is it one per window (both doors)?

    Phil
     
  16. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    Phil the window motors need two relays each.One relay is used to raise the window while another is used for lowering the window.The motors are DC motors and require polarity to be swapped in order to change direction of the motor.Lets say for example that thenwindow motor has two wires,on red wire and one black.By connecting 12v to the red wire and grounding the black wire the motor will spin in one direction,if you then connect the black wire to 12v and the red to ground,the motor will spin in the opposite direction.The two relays swap the connection of the wires
     
  17. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
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    Phil, in the solution presented here, the relays' purpose is to shorten the route to ground, not to bring in a new positive 12V ciruit to the window motors. Other solutions that have been diagrammed on other treads show how to bring in a new positive 12V line directly to the door, thereby having the window switches become a low volt activator for the newly added relays.
     
  18. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
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    #15 PhilB, Jan 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
    Yes, this is the route I was considering taking - having the switch activate relays which will power 12v feeders to each door.

    But to Maurice's point (thank you Maurice, my brain was aching trying to figure why the two relays), even with a new 12v feeder, I presume two relays will be required (one for up, one for down)?

    This is one of those items long down on the list, but nevertheless I want to understand my options so I can get to it at some point.

    Phil
     
  19. tech4ferrari

    tech4ferrari Karting
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    JUST TRIED THIS ON A 355 AND DID NOT WORK PROPERLY FOR ME...HOWEVER IT WAS A 355 SPIDER "WINDOWS HAVE A TOP INPUT SIGNAL ADDED IN"....THE WINDOW ECU KEPT SHUTTING THE GLASS LIFTER OFF AND WHEN YOU WOULD UNDO THE TOP TO PUT IT DOWN THE WINDOW WOULD NOT LOWER TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE TOP, HAVENT TRIED 355 COUPE YET....I HAVE USED IT ON SEVERAL 308'S, 328'S AND 348'S...WORKS GREAT.
     
  20. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
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    #17 Paul_308, Jan 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
    Yes, but not the same type of relay. Both 'up' and and 'down' relays must each have contacts for power as well as ground. By using DPDT relays, a little circuit protection can be built in as well.

    edit - Speed has consequences. Forgot to add that the hypersonic 2 second down time can slam the window into the bottom stops, so I added limit switches to softly turn motors off before that happens.

    Also, change the rubber stops at the bottom as they get terribly worn. My Ace hardware store had replacements.
     
  21. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    i just wish there was a way that the windows could go down and be flush with the door :D
     
  22. DANCER308

    DANCER308 Formula Junior
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    I'm going to add the relays to my passenger door, but when searching for the relays, some have internal resistors and some don't. Will either type work, is one better than the other?

    Dan
     
  23. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    Technically known as 'snubbers' they help quench the spikes generated when the coil is switched on/off. For some automotive applications they are chosen when radio noise must be avoided or where switch contact erosion is a problem. Snubbers come in resistors, resistor-capacitor combinations, diodes, zener diodes, back-to-back zeners, varistors and a few other who-cares types.

    If you listen to the radio a lotIf you feel the need for snubbers on your relays, choose any type except for diodes unless you plan to pay attention to coil polarity. But you won't so don't use diode snubbers.
     
  24. DANCER308

    DANCER308 Formula Junior
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    Thanks paul.

    So the resistor type could help save the window switches?
     
  25. Jbryant

    Jbryant Karting

    Sep 23, 2006
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    Jeff Bryant
    Thanks for your idea. I installed the relays this weekend and WOW it was a major improvement. I had already removed the motors and applied new grease and that helped, but the relays were the right ticket. Window moves up and down like you would expect.

    Thanks Again
     
  26. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    Consider a relay used in brake light service in a commercial truck. That application suggests using a snubber on the relay coil to help longevity of the brake light switch contacts. That's typical of why relay coil snubbers are offered but unfortunately it serves to confuse one's choice in a less demanding application. My primary point was avoiding purchase of diode snubbers as they require observing strict polarity requirements. But a resistor snubber might reduce radio noise for you and be a good choice.

    You have already taken the big step in saving the window switches by using a relay which is lowering the current a hundred-fold - not to speak of halving the time it's actually used. Next step, saving the headlight switch!
     
  27. spgribben007

    spgribben007 Karting

    Nov 11, 2010
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    Steve Gribben
    I got the replays and I'm plan of doing the fix this coming weekend. I haven't take the door panels off and was wondering what gauge wire should I get?
     
  28. adsphelan

    adsphelan Karting

    Nov 11, 2005
    54
    All the wires are 14 gage except the ground which is 16 to 18 gage. I used all 14 gage on my 348.
     

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