Small Claims Court Summons | FerrariChat

Small Claims Court Summons

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by ceb39, May 30, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2012
    483
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    Chuck B
    Anyone ever been taken to Small Claims Court by the buyer of your car?

    I sold my 1987 Mondial, via a broker in California in 2016. The buyer is trying to sue us for $10k each related to claims of Fraud (no details on that), Negligence (no details on that), and Two incidents of Odometer Tampering (what proof of that he has in unknown to the broker and I, plus the odometer was not tampered with).

    The broker, who has been in business for twenty five years, sold the car AS IS and has the signed documents to prove that the buyer was aware of this. The buyer did not avail himself of any PPI.

    Just wondering how anyone handled a situation like this. The Broker believes the buyer has no case since he was aware that he was buying the car AS IS.

    Believe this is a case of buyers remorse two years after the fact.

    Thanks
     
  2. sf_hombre

    sf_hombre Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2008
    1,282
    Stimulus Bill
    Full Name:
    Don
    I'd suggest you contact the plaintiff directly as if you are interested in exploring a settlement, and ask what his complaints about the transaction are. Then contact an attorney friend with that info and find out if the buyer has any case.
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  3. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    Two years after the fact????? Seems to me the first thing to do is to find out if the law will even allow an action after that much time.

    Is the guy a big time Hollywood producer whose employees all love him?
     
    Jacob Potts and Ducman491 like this.
  4. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2012
    483
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    Chuck B
    I attempted to contact him after the sale to let him know he could contact me with any questions he had. The broker told me he was not interested.

    The attorney I contacted said, "It has been two years since the sale, and the sale was AS IS. He is out of luck."
     
    brianweekes likes this.
  5. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2009
    8,657
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Mark Smith
    My office is in small claims court every week. In ca, in order to file they have to sign that they have asked for the money.

    I’d talk to the broker first, something may be missing from the conversation.

    You do not want a judgment recorded against you.
     
    anunakki, Lusso123 and Texas Forever like this.
  6. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2011
    2,449
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Keith
    From what I’ve seen I’d say never NOT respond. I thought that small claims required in state or in locale actions. In any case, research the conditions for small claims in the jurisdiction filed and if the action doesn’t meet the conditions, respond in writing why it doesn’t apply.

    No response often times results in default judgments against the non respondent.

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Lusso123 and Texas Forever like this.
  7. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,371
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Since the car is a 1987, I assume there have been several owners. The "as is" nature of the sale puts him in a certain losing position unless he can prove fraud, and he isn't even indicating what alleged fraud occurred.

    This will be interesting, please keep us updated.
     
  8. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2009
    8,657
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Mark Smith
    I doubt fraud and odometer tampering are subject to an “as is” agreement.

    Perhaps there were problems with the odometer that existed before you purchased the car. Try dig up the original receipt with miles listed.

    If you sold the car in another jurisdiction file for change of venue
     
    brianweekes likes this.
  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,960
    Texas!
    Depending on the temperature of the water in your area, many small claims courts are extremely pro-consumer. The last thing you want to do is ignore this.
     
  10. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2009
    8,657
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Mark Smith
    We have found also that most courts favor the party that filed the complaint.

    We do allot of trial prep, with table of contents, summary, and all exhibits have page numbers on them.

    Being prepared, documented, and non-emotional goes a long way towards wining your case.

    Do your best to have your documentation match your testimony
     
    Lotaz and Texas Forever like this.
  11. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,247
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    The seller may be referring to a carfax report, as a wild guess. My testarossa has 14k miles. Carfax shows at one point it had 113k miles, etc. When you go for emmissions testing, they "assume" its 113k miles as its a 30 year old car. You don't find out until later. Good luck fixing it...
     
  12. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,247
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    Are you in California? If someone is suing you they must list on the small court application what the suit is for. Usually with some detail.

    First court date is usually just to set the next court date, for a trial if needed. The first court date nothing ever gets settled. You definitely need to go or send someone...
     
  13. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2009
    8,657
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Mark Smith
    Not in our jurisdiction. One day court. Come prepared
     
    Lusso123 and Texas Forever like this.
  14. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    I did three small claim case a few months ago. On the date of each, showed up, told the judge my story, the defendant say their **** and a half hour later it's done. The judge makes his decision within 30 days and mails a summary to both parties.
     
  15. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,247
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    Never heard of that... Waiting 30 days...
     
  16. sf_hombre

    sf_hombre Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2008
    1,282
    Stimulus Bill
    Full Name:
    Don
    The broker told you the plaintiff was not interested in settlement? I suggest you talk to the plaintiff directly.
     
  17. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2011
    17,389
    A 10k risk is not worth asking people on f-chat for their non-legal opinions from different jurisdiction.

    If you’re in my state (and best yet my county) I’d give you an opinion after looking at the pleadings.
     
    jm2 and Texas Forever like this.
  18. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2012
    483
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    Chuck B
    Well both I and the broker who sold the car are going to court in July.

    In the document filed with the court he states the broker and I owe him money due to Fraud, Negligence, and two incidents of Odometer Tampering related to the sale of the Ferrari.

    Because this sale was in California the car had to be smogged before it could be transferred to me. The car passed that smog test at 61,709 miles in 2012, it went through another smog test in 2014 at 64,355, and a final smog test in May of 2016 (before it was sold) at 66,574. So I had it for a total of 4,865 miles. The Car-fax shows numerous smog and service records going back to 1991, 33,892 miles, until the last one on the Car Fax at Nov 2015, at 66,222 miles. I did not tamper with the odometer (would have not idea how to do it) and to the best of my knowledge no one else has tampered with the odometer. I believe his claim of Fraud is related to the reference related to odometer tampering.

    For some reason the new buyer had $23K worth of work done on the car. What that consisted of I do not know. I believe, but do not know for certain, it was for a major service on the car. I had a major service done on the car before it was sold. The receipt for that service was with all the other records I had for the car, which was in a binder which contained every record I had for anything I bought or had done on the car. So my records are complete.

    The broker and I are preparing our response for the court appearance, and I am arranging for the owner of the shop to be in court that day.

    Will see how it goes. Believe this is a case of "Buyers Remorse" twenty-six months after the sale of the car. If he paid $23K for a major service on the car, he got taken. Plus the shop where he spent $23k was not a Ferrari shop. It was the type of shop which worked on any type of car driven into the shop.

    Will keep everyone posted.
     
  19. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2011
    2,449
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Keith
    Note that in California in small claims that you have to exchange any evidence you plan to submit before the trial.

    Well documented is well handled... also don’t be surprised if he ends up not showing...

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    brianweekes likes this.
  20. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    9,102
    SF
    Is it also possible the market has softened since his purchase, another reason for buyer's remorse?
     
  21. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,371
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Any possible grounds for a countersuit, e.g. filing a frivolous lawsuit?
     
    Jaguar36 likes this.
  22. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,179
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    Surely any judge would have to query why it's taken the plaintiff over two years to become concerned about the cars mileage? :confused:
     
  23. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,814
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    It almost sounds as if whoever ripped him off for the $23k worth of service is deflecting to you to justify the charges.
     
    Flash G likes this.
  24. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2011
    2,449
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Keith
    IIRC, small claims only allows damages up to $7500. Then they have to be actual damages and not projected.

    I’m still betting he’ll bail...hoping the defendant wasn’t going to show...

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  25. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    One does not have took far to find people who have little technical knowledge and are predisposed to believing they're being "had". It's SOP for some people. Don't know if there'd be any way to use it as evidence, but I'd be tempted to try to find out how many times he's sued over car purchases in the past.

    I'm still surprised that the statute of limitations has not been exceeded.

    Don't know you, but seem like a straight shooter, so it's a bloody shame you're having to put up with this. Sadly, you can't expect a judge (especially a CA judge) to know boo about cars, so hopefully you can be prepared to clearly refute whatever claims may be made.

    Best of luck. I hope justice prevails. Let us know what happens.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.

Share This Page