Smog and importation into California of a 400i | FerrariChat

Smog and importation into California of a 400i

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Stefano1, Feb 23, 2009.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Stefano1

    Stefano1 Karting

    Dec 28, 2008
    53
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Stefano Bini
    #1 Stefano1, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I am going to post this so that, in the future, it can be a resource to others. It will be especially usefull after the FChat community chimes in and adds comments.

    The 400i's were brought into the US as Gray Market cars which means they were not designed to meet federal standards and required special "permission" and modifications to enter the US legally. That meant that each car needed to be "federalized" (this essentially meant that the cars had catalytic converters installed; then frequently removed) and should have what are called DOT (Dept of Transportation) and EPA (environ. prot. agency) paperwork to be registered in most/any? state the US. Normally, this is documented by placing stickers on the car, usually, but not always, on the drivers side of the door. This sticker would also have a new US VIN number, usually very long, at the end of which would be the 5 digit Ferrari VIN.

    Once imported into the country under this special program, the 400is could be registered anywhere ... until California added yet another smog hurdle. This new testing was above and beyond federal standards and required further testing and modifications ( I do not know when it actually started but after most 400i's were imported). At the completion of this testing, they would assign the car a BAR sticker (california Bureau of Automotive Repairs) without which the car could be registered (true today).

    However, many cars formerly registered in CA and now residing elsewhere have no BAR stickers. How can that be? As I noted earlier, the BAR sticker gig only came into play several years after these cars were imported. The department of motor vehicles (DMV) generally let people continue to renew their registration for cars WITHOUT a BAR sticker after the new laws went into effect.... until it changed ownership. If the car went to another state, it simply did not matter. The other 49 states could not care less and went ahead and registered the vehicle. However, if the car changed ownership in CA, the new owner would need to go through the whole BAR sticker process.

    To get a BAR sticker today, you need to go to a Referee appointed by the DMV. The car must have the DOT EPA paperwork or stickers. Without them, you are referred to the Air Resources Board first, which apparently is not likely to issue anything other than headaches. If you have the DOT EPA stickers, before you meet with the Referee, you need to take the car to a BAR certified testing station (again, not your average SMOG shop) of which there remain only 2 that I know of in CA - Napa in NCal (NCal Diagnostic labs 707-258 1753) and one in SCal (#?) Apparently there were quite a few of these immediately after the law changed in order to legalize the thousands of grey market cars in the state. As these cars gradually faded, were legalized or left the state and new cars came in that already met requirements, the shops mostly closed up. The Labs go so far as to lock a car into a sealed room and run the engine for a period of time to measure total emissions. The Lab then makes recomendations to make the car meet the standards in vogue the year the car was manufactured. They will note these recommendations on the ceritificate they issue and charge you $3500 for the pleasure. They will happily make the modifications for you as well. Usually, the tech there told me the cars need an "air injection system", preferably electronic...but I have no idea what that means or where the air gets injected into. Maybe someone can chime in?

    You take this certificate to the Referee appointed by the Dept of Motor Vehicles who will check to make sure that all the alterations recommended by the lab have been made and are present, that all the stickers are on the car (DOT/EPA and/or Air Resource Board) and then he smogs the car. If it passes, he will issue a BAR Sticker.

    Now your car is no different from any other car on the road (just better looking and a lot faster). I also believe that cars that pre-date 1975 are exempt and that that date moves up a year every year...but I am not certain.

    So, in essence, if you want to bring a car in from another state:

    make sure there are DOT/EPA papers or stickers
    check for BAR sticker. If not there, but the car was once registered in CA, you can plug the US VIN# into the BAR website to check that the car was once CA registered (I saw one for sale in LA that actually was not on the website despite being recently registered in CA by dealer report...so this is a way to fact check on a car "without" a BAR sticker that someone is claming to be recently or currently registered in CA)
    If + BAR, you can go straight to DMV
    if - BAR, it seems like you might as well send the car directly to the Lab and get your certificate
    pay $3500 + alterations
    Call the BAR and they will assign a Referee.
    The Ref will call you and make an appt to check your car, your paper work, your Lab certificate, that your Lab recommended alterations have been done and are still on the car, and then smog the car. He will issue a BAR sticker if the car passes. No pass? Back to the Lab.
    Take the smog check and paperwork to DMV and register the car.
    After that, renewal is simply a matter of sending in payments and passing smog.

    At least, that is the "legal" way of doing things as it was explained to me. If you can get someone to run a smog check for you (tough to do because the smog machine will not take the VIN number apparently, and it is unclear what the testing levels are - but this part I am not clear on) and pass, I suspect you might be able to get your car registered at DMV with the smog cert alone...how would they know?

    I got this information from 3 sources: a Smog referee, a Ferrari mechanic with 25 years' experience, and a technician at the Smog Lab.

    OK, if any of this is not accurate, or you have a different understanding of it, please correct me so that we can get some clarity on this issue for posterity.
    If you have gone through this, please comment.
    I will post pictures of the BAR stickers once I either own one or can get permission from someone to post theirs (or feel free to post if you have one)

    So, why live in CA? Well, at 6:45 pm my time this are the US temperatures....
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    W/897 mi. on the clock @ import (10/84), my test results (#46009) filed w/EPA for HC, CO, NOx,& Evap. were .39. 1.55, .74, & 1.49 respectively. Max limits set by EPA @ the time were .41, 3.40, 1.00, 2.00. Don't know what the BAR limits are, I would imagine you can always lean the FI versions out to bring it w/in standards, but going too far on the lean will shoot the NOx #'s off the charts in a quick way.
    I'm curious as to how the ideal stoichiometric ratio (lambda=1 / 14.7 air/fuel ratio) measures up to the BAR requirements in Ca.?
     
  3. infuriarsi

    infuriarsi Rookie

    Oct 9, 2007
    40
    Eugene, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Joseph Potter
    You are correct on the 1974 rule. Any car 1974 or older is exempt. It is now fixed, it will not change or advance in the future. 1975 and newer must meet period criteria.
     
  4. beng

    beng Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2006
    645
    RSF, California
    Full Name:
    Benjamin Galdston
    Close, but not quite. 1975 is the cut-off for no smog. 1976 and later have to pass smog.
     
  5. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 9, 2007
    1,177
    Santa Ana,California
    Full Name:
    William
    Correct, '75 and earlier exempt, '76 and later must comply, dates fixed.
     
  6. fletch62

    fletch62 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    333
    Fairhope, AL
    Full Name:
    Larry Fletcher
    Now you understand why I was only in CA for 2 years and would not return even under threat of death. As for the temps I see your in San Francisco, I was in Monterey, simaliar weather, too cold all the time. I remember San Francisco Times headline in 1990 " Heat Wave 70 degrees and no relief in sight" I thought it had finally barely got warm enough for human habitation. So Enjoy!

    Larry
     
  7. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2006
    2,713
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Filtered air is pulled from the intake stream, and through a system of check valves is injected into the exhaust headers. The purpose is to dilute emissions when the vehicle is first started until it warms up.

    Not much leeway left to mod a car in California.
     
  8. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,536
    Left Coast
    All I can say is good luck, I have lived in California all my life and owned a number of cars that were special makes and imports. It is the biggest pain in the butt to get these to pass, and you have to go through the whole stupid process every two years. Just when you get it all dialed in with one smog guy they close shop or move and you have to start all over.

    I now run everything pre 1976

    My next battle with the BAR is my fleet of Diesel trucks. All Diesel trucks over 14000 GVR will have to be converted over to a catalytic converter or some fancy smog system starting in 2012. All trucks coming into the state will be required to meet these standards.


    Yes the weather is nice.
     
  9. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,787
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White

    Which is frickin' STUPID.
     
  10. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    #10 jm3, Feb 25, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009

    Actually the air is injected to help "kick start" the catalytic converters by introducing extra oxygen to the necessarily rich cold engine mixture.

    I would also add that in my experience, the guys (and girls) who work certifying cars with BAR are very knowledgeable and are almost certainly secret gearheads. I know a LOT about cars, and these guys, including a female who certified one of my engine swaps, have been very, very sharp, including how to get around certain rules. (such as legally swapping which JDM twin cam motors into what year Honda because of being legally grandfathered in with a certain engine family)


    jay

    oh and by the way she wasn't hot. Smart, but not hot.
     
  11. AgSilver

    AgSilver Rookie

    Apr 22, 2009
    13
    Florida/NY/Germany
    Full Name:
    Steve Silver
    Florida will be happy to have you (or at least your car). Many people vacation in Florida for a few months in the winter and have cars here. You will need a real address, but if you have a friend anywhere in Florida it should not be a problem. You shouldn't even need a Florida DL. You will have to bring the car to Florida once to be visualy inspected by a clerk at one of the tax collector offices (just to verify the VIN) to register it. Should cost less than $200 if your existing registration shows you have owned the car for more than 6 months. The annual registration is less than $50. That's it, no inspections nada! Oh . . . and check the S Florida weather on that map.
     
  12. Stefano1

    Stefano1 Karting

    Dec 28, 2008
    53
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Stefano Bini
    :)
    I do have friends in FLA.. clever idea.
    If I have to deal with the BAR for 6 months or more, then I will spend 2k to get the car to FLA and back! It will be worth it.
    Thanks!
     
  13. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,874
    Know folks with Nevada vacation / ski home. This didn't work well for them. The cops look for out of state plates and pull you over on a whim. CA "needs" the money.

    ALSO

    The lab doesn't conclude their business with you by sending you to ref after paying the 3500 with a list. If they give you a list after their testing. You get to install what they suggest or whatever else you can devise to pass the Labs requirements, and pay the 3500 again for another test (No limit on how many times you repeat this cycle). Only after you satisfy the lab - you can take the noted paperwork stating what eqip was present to make car clean, and ref will test car again and give you a BAR sticker.

    The biggest challenge I see now is the equipment is drying up in a big way. The VW's etc that used to use these bits are no longer around. The atermarket company that makes lambda control equip is gone.

    Pull out your Ferrari V12 and put in PRIUS running gear :(
     
  14. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,874
    What equip on what model gave you these numbers? Is this a BBi? WHat are the units? Are these #s grams / mile? Which has no trivial relationship with % and PPM - the way your local smog shop will test.
     
  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,874
    With what equip, and brand / make of cats did you achieve these numbers? Congratulations!
     
  16. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,874
    Also, Did you get these numbers at the Napa lab?
     
  17. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross

    What a nightmare. Red tape like this is ridiculous. Any chance of "flexible" inspectors?
    I'd register out of state. Is there some law in California that prohibits folks from owning property elsewhere?

    All the fuel my car has consumed in my many years of ownership if set alight in a barrel would probably emit less than some of the hulking vehicles on the road. Isn't there some provision for race, show or antique vehicles that are seldom used?
    Forgive me for presuming common sense among bureaucrats.
     
  18. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,477
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Hey California has shown us all what a successful state they have been. Look at how many people are leaving and the debt they have accumulated. Great job CA!
     
  19. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,874
    I hear you. Way too loud and clear! I've been going through this crap for over a year. My car easily passed three of the IM 240 tests given at the present CA dyno test shops, but the C.A.R.B. lab standards are a higher goal to achieve. The tests performed were just checks, and the specs were probably from a 308. I've burned through a tank plus setting up a car for the test when that same car may not consume a tank in a year. From what I've learned - "flexible inspectors" NO! and cars that are 25 yrs or older are eligible for historical vehicle plates, but that does NOT stop the smog requirements. I intend to keep on fighting. I've worked hard my whole life with the dream of getting one of these cars, and I'm not walking away from it. I hope you are victorious wading through the bureaucracy.
     
  20. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    #20 It's Ross, Jun 3, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2009
    It seems to me that the CARB tests(they need a new acronym)are geared towards manufacturers having designs on importing thousands of such examples with no consideration for the idea that a car being tested will be the only or near only example of it's kind. With that as a foundation perhaps the modifications given to one particular car to pass could be established as a standard modification that once applied would exempt the rest from testing. Again I assume common sense.
    My 400i is for sale once I get off my ass and do something to market it. I made mention here a while back and had an inquiry from a California gent who seemed to be interested but I had to tell him to forget getting it past your emission tests.
    Unless buyers are willing to be creative or spend well in excess of what is reasonable I don't see many 400s ever being sold to California residents from out of state.
    Unless one is on a first name basis with the local gendarmerie for the wrong reasons it would seem easiest to register out of state. Put on Illinois tags and a rust decal, no one will bother you.

    Edit: Perhaps Jay Leno will run for office when the Governator has had enough.
     
  21. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,813
    North Pole AK
    I hope they don't take their California why of life/thinking with them when they leave.
     
  22. norcal2

    norcal2 F1 Veteran

    "What a nightmare. Red tape like this is ridiculous. Any chance of "flexible" inspectors?
    I'd register out of state. Is there some law in California that prohibits folks from owning property elsewhere?"
    There are a few regulations, but If you own property in Nevada you can register your car there, and Insure it as well....
     
  23. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    My first hand experience with bringing a brand new Mercedes into Marina Del Rey, Ca. goes like this. I bought a new MB in Florida and drove it to my home in M.D.R. I Drove it for six months without incident. Then one day at the supermarket when I return to my car in the parking lot, I find a ticket on the windscreen...I appears that a Cadet C.H.P. kid patrolling the area for several weeks noticed the Florida plate(tags) and ran the regist . It turns out that any Calif. resident that drives his "out of state vehicle"into Calif. is IMMEDIATELY liable for licensing the car the second that the front bumper crosses the Calif. state line. The upshot of this is that I paid $2K in fines and paid almost double the normal license fee and smog fees...AAA can't help us on these matters. Also, the longer the time you think your getting away without registering,and unsmogged to boot, the higher the penalties. However, if you are in this country illegally, you can probably get a total pass on this matter. Besides that, think of the grief that is involved in just smogging our 400i's. I've kept mine in Florida for 12 years for just this reason. I hope that this info is of some use. I can hardly wait to hear... the diatribe refuting this.
     
  24. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,477
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Adding to illegals getting a pass on the above listed issue are the insurance carriers which insure any and all drivers. Most auto insurers who sell policies in California will insure an illegal alien if they do not have a drivers license. This creates a huge question for auto insurers who state they are in the business of assessing risk according to ones' previous driving history. If you or I lose our drivers license for any reason, our California auto insurance policy can and most likely will be cancelled because of not being a licensed driver, yet it's perfectly fine for someone to not be licensed or be a US citizen paying taxes to be insured. Lovely state.
     
  25. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,874
    This is a common effect seen by those with vacation homes in Nevada. Supposedly - - IF you own the car and live out of state for some time (1 year or whatever?), then you move to this great state with your "49 state" car, you can go straight to the ref for a BAR label. This is really crummy! I was told by DMV ,"take it to a smog station for a test". I said, "a special station like a referee or Test-Only", DMV said, "no, any smog station". I just love the accurate info!
     

Share This Page