This is a post I found by some user (Steve R) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyU6mEdcW4U A quote from Steve R. I just would like my fellow Ferrari chat people to help me understand something, Is this guy Licensed professional race car driver? As I have seen in his posts he sure talks a lot like one. Please advise.
It seems to work for him. Alonso was doing the same thing a year ago, he would start a turn, then chop the wheel all the way over. He didn't seem to have the front tires wash out, so I guess it worked for him.
First off, it's a converted street car and incredibly stiffly spring. Most of the movements Jeff's making are trying to corral the unruly car from curbs, pavement changes and other irregularities. The car's incredible amount of positive caster, put there to add mechanical grip, causes the steering to be very, very heavy, a little unstable under braking (which is where he's correcting the most), plus he's having to grip the steering wheel hard enough for the leather to squeeze out! That said, this video is from very early in Jeff's career, immediately after he "graduated" from BMWCCA Club Racing in 2003. Some of it may be a holdover from that. He's a LOT smoother now! Jeff Segal is a rising professional sports car driver in the Grand Am GT class and is very, very good. He started in the sedan class (Koni Challenge) and his talent has taken him up the ladder to the purpose-built, tube-frame GT cars. See his resume here: http://www.jeffreysegal.com/accomplishments/ If you watched the ITV in-car coverage of the Bahrain GP, Lewis looked like he was on a Sunday drive, Massa looked good and none of the others needed to use these "high frequency" movements Jeff had to make to keep his 360 Challenge under control. If you watch Jeff drive now, he looks like the GP drivers
Still a good point but I really wanted to know more about this Steve R person. Is he a professional? ?
Steve R. is the commentator to another post. Doing a search, all I can find in his posts are references to various aftermarket exhausts and ice cream... Jeffrey Segal, son of Algar Ferrari owner since 1995, Bob Segal, is the driver in the video. Yes, Jeffrey is a professional and has been for 4 years.
Thanks for the input on this. As from such comments as mentioned by Steve R, seems he talks as if he were a FIA racing licensed professional racer car driver.
For an in-car Ferrari 430GT2 lap of Sebring go to www.allansimonsen.com and connect to the video link, someone well in control there, the casual catch of the oversreer at turn 1 is nice.
It looks to me the comments attributed to Steve R in this thread can only be referred to as "alleged". I don't see any references. No one compares to Casey. I hope he shows this weekend.
The phrase "licensed professional" made me chuckle. Heck, even I've had a couple pro racing licenses. All it takes is money.
Thanks, Allan is now a very busy boy and has got where he is now through persistence, resilience, and a total absence of bs. His record speaks volumes. It is possible to get there without sponsorship. Its very rewarding to help young guys like him.
Same here. I have tried to understand this guy as well. Sad part is, This Steve R person seem to hang around the so.cal section. That is what I have been meaning to call this "Steve R" person and a couple of his fellow GO-Karting pals.
Lets see what happens when Steve R shows up to this thread. You think you had a chuckle when you read "licensed professional" wait for it !. That is much as I can say.
This is a pretty tough area of the forum for those without recognized credentials or verifiable competition history. There are several of the "real McCoy" here, from all over the world! Let's see...
First, i AM NOT the famous Steve R. Here is my take on the video/driving plus how it relates to my own (limited) track experience. The initial hard turning in gives great response (output for given input), yet soon after the high input hard turn of the wheel i can feel the tires' grip level decrease as the tire can not sustain that initial high grip level given the high (turn) input level. Therefore once i feel/sense the wash out occurring i back off a bit to allow the front tires to regain grip level/get traction. If you look at vintage race car footage (or attend a vintage race where cars with thin tires are mounted), they 'saw' at the steering wheel moreso than what modern car drivers may do. So it is a traction thing where initial turn in response is excellent yet the tires can not sustain said grip level of the high amount of turn in. As such, instead of then letting the front tire wash away, you release some of the turn in level to gain back grip level and start the process again. Of course there may be various levels of throttle during this turn event to help 'steer' the car. Tires and the car do indeed 'talk back' and tell you what is going on. The trick is in the 'listening/feel' and the car's setup (and yes, driving talent... technique... and experience.... or in my case the lack thereof as compared to others). Hope Steve R chimes in, as his insight on this matter would be excellent.
I interpret Jeff's turn-in as a proper, measured and decisive control input to direct the lively and terribly stiffly sprung car towards the path that he desires. After initiating rotation, thereby causing the car to do more of the work than the driver, he chooses when and how to stop the rate of increase of that rotation by backing off the steering input, but not necessarily the throttle input. According to the audio track in the video, if it's synchronized correctly, he is not breathing off to moderate but instead is fully committing to the throttle and maintaining that commitment throughout most corners. That just means the car is reasonably well balanced and not doing too much of any bad thing. I may run afoul of my friend b-mak here, but I like and am intimately familiar with racing cars built from the Fifties to the Eighties. As an active and long time winning vintage (and current ) amateur racing driver, often the tire construction mandated by the rules causes the handling balance on most of these older cars to be much more "loose" or oversteery than more modern cars. A fine example was when I was fortunate enough to drive 0418MD at Monza twenty years ago. It is common practice and a desired handling trait for the car to be turned more aggressively at the beginning of the corner to begin that rotation, then to back off the steering input and using the throttle to maintain a much higher slip angle through the corner than more modern cars. The best vintage racing drivers are just as smooth as LH, Massa or Fisi are in their in-car footage from Bahrain, just that the quickest vintage cars are sliding through the corner on that fixed and desired trajectory at more lurid slip angles. IMO, the "sawers at the wheel" are either "traction sampling" or showing off! Establishing the balance between front and rear "stick" and the resultant loss of traction on one or both ends is the difference between mediocre, good and great drivers. The best handling race cars are those that are good "on the nose" and turn-in at the desired speed of the driver without concomitant (and occurring at a quick rate) loss of adhesion at the back end! If the front tire "washes away," then the driver has entered the turn too quickly, period. First fix the driver, then fix the car! Why is it that the best pro drivers harp over and over and over again against the dreaded "understeer?" Because it delays turn-in and delays throttle application, that's why... The reason why one should release the steering is to balance the car as it begins to rotate, basically reduce the rate at which it increases it's rotation until that desired slip angle is reached or maintained with the throttle. Ding, ding, ding! We have another winner! Yes, and that's why all these videos are worthless without audio and/or data in the form of accelerometer/throttle position traces. As drivers get quicker, they make the car do more of the work. How they maintain the balance between understeer and oversteer is much more through the throttle than the steering. As a matter of fact, steering, other than beginning the arc of the trajectory the driver desires for the car to plot through the corner, is largely an afterthought and influenced by the topography of the track. This is why for all our harping on "smooth," "steady"and "slow hands" on the wheel, cars and courses vary too much for someone to off the cuff condemn the driver in the video for seemingly violating those "rules." I think Steve R. was questioning what he saw on the video and trying to jibe what he's seeing with what he's read or heard "bench racing." If he was a "professional," he would certainly be able to shed insight rather than ask questions initially... That's why I question the value of his contribution even before I see it...
Well, sir, I cannot argue or take an opposing position here. I'm overwhelmed by the possible Casey Putsch jokes given the mention of vintage racers, so I'll pass for now.
Lolaman, awesome post! You, sir, are a better wordsmith than i (humbly bow in your general direction). (Humor, not me as driver) Or at LRP in a VERY vintage Alfa with pencil-thin tires ;-)
