Well, lets think about this for a minute. People have been doing this sort of thing to Ferraris for years. Much longer than most of us on this board have been alive. For proof: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258898 Now, do you think that in the long term those cars are worth more or less due to their provenance or having had engines from other manufacturers in them? What about the one Tom Shaughnessy (sp?) bought that had a Devin body and a Chevy engine (I cant find the thread about it at the moment). I would GLADLY take a vintage Ferrari with an incorrect engine. What about MK E's V12 conversion - thats not an original engine. Is that going to destroy the value of the car? Or make it too much to handle? As I recall he is going to have that engine rated at somewhere in the neighborhood of 800hp. At the same time I remember the "Oddball 308" thread where people were adamantly against the car because it had a non-original engine. My point being that a period correct engine can be reunited with a body at some later point if the owner wants to do so. What our friend Kelly wants to do is to save a body that would otherwise be trashed and/or totalled and build something the way HE wants to do. I have ZERO problems with that. I doubt seriously that Enzo would either. PDG
Agreed, COMPLETELY! I think Kelly's intentions to save a Ferrari otherwise destined for the crusher far outweigh any concerns for originality for me. God knows I'm doctoring my car, my way. A couple of my best friends have heart transplants (friends, not their cars). Just to be clear, my comments on exhaust systems - I was just hoping to coax our young friend into making it sound good! Which can be done with whatever lump he so chooses. Go for it Kelly! Rick
Heck yeah! Give that baby some butt to match it's beauty! I have to admit, this thread makes me want to dig up a "roller" 308, put a LS3 and some aggressive suspension in it, and do a sweet cosmetic restoration!
Silly question here but what are the benefits of a flat crank, besides the sound? Also what is it about the sound that makes it so intoxicating? Ace
The sound is just a byproduct of the even exhaust pulses at each collector. By having even pulses you get a boost in scavenging of the cylinders which leads to better combustables on the next cycle, higher rpm (if the valve train can take it) and then higher performance. What makes it so intoxicating??? dunno, just is. Some cars make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It goes beyond auditory and becomes visceral. I marvel at man's ability to take a bunch of metal and dinosaur juice and produce a machine that wails like a banshee stuck with a pitchfork. Technology is a way cool thing. Excuse me, I need to go listen to my LeMans soundtrack CD....<grin> Rick
Guess I got caught up on the exhaust part of a flat crank. Mechanically there are benefits as well. Although they are not inherently as mechanically balanced as a cross plane crank, a flat plane crank generally runs with much less balance weight either in the crank or externally mounted... thus it spins up faster too. Rick
Hi Rick, Yup, typo in the first sentence... Anyway, you know what I mean. Sounds like you have pretty mature tastes in racing cars! Definitely agree - the 3ltr Alfa F1 is amazing to the ears. I bid on a 1975 Alfa F1 car for sale online about two years ago but didn't get the winning bid - went for about $175K and came with a boat load of spares. Now that would have been a fun car to run at my local vintage racing club track days... For the time being I'll enjoy my GT40. Cheers!
I have a restorable (complete less drivetrain) 1977 308 GTB that would fit the bill nicely. PM for details.
Okay, thanks for the input, I honestly think a Dutch Rudder would be more fun than a circle jerk, but hey, who am i to say? Thank you Thanks, that is part of the fun of the project! Hey Cliff, Thanks for the input, I really like the idea of a porsche rod, in fact a beat up 930 gave me the idea for a 308! I would go for the 911 rod, but guess what, I have seen it before. GrayTA and Ramosel, thanks for the replies, typed this up before I read your posts, but I think you guys are on the same page I am. Anyway, I have been busy doing training exercises, and haven't had time to reply, but I am impressed this garnered three pages already. So here is the lowdown guys. Before you paint me as a heretic with a mullet from mississippi who wants nothing more than to jam a chevy 350 in the back of a 308 with a hacksaw, mig welder, and a case of Dixie beer, hear me out... I am a car guy, plain and simple. I really have a fondness for the Cavallino Rampante, and being the shop b*tch for a few years at Norbert Hofer's, and Cary Eisenlohr's places really gave me an intimate view of something I have never seen before. I will agree with the statement that if you put another motor in a Ferrari, it is not a Ferrari anymore (even eight cylinder cars built by FIAT). I really love the lines of the 308, I think that is Fioravanti's best work. Enzo Ferrari was a tinkerer. He loved racing. We all know the Commendatore's history, I am not quoting it here. Think about what the average guy thinks about when he sees a Ferrari. How many of you owners have left your car at a gas pump when you walked in to pay and had someone ***** at you about it when you walked back out "oh you just want everyone to see your pretty little ferrari". Leave your beat up truck out at the pump, no one cares. There is a predisposed ideal about ferraris that the general public has, pretty fast cars owned by someone with a higher socioeconomic status. Do you think that was Enzo's goal in 1947? Hell No! He wanted to go racing! That is what my beat-up 308 is to personify. I don't want to put a 350 in it. I have built plenty of chevy small blocks, (and the occasional Mopar big block). Boring. I love Ferraris. Any car guy does. I do believe there are plenty of original-numbers-matching cars out there to represent the marque. Go to a car show and what kind of Ferraris do you see? Besides any larger metropolitan areas, mostly original 308s. These cars carried Ferrari, and are instantly recognizable, and also perfect- numbers matching this, correct that. I will salivate over the beat-up original 383 road runner before I would the restored hemi SuperBird, just because I have seen the restored hemi bird. They actually bore me. Same with the Ferrari. I love the 365 Daytona. I want one that is titty-F***ing-tastly original, but lets face it, its a fair chance I am not going to see that in my garage any time soon, not to mention that an annointed few own them. Remember that 930 I talked about? It was all Porsche. It had a gigantic intercooler sticking out of the whale tale, and a sewer pipe dumping straight out of the wastegate, and it rattled windows as it drove by! This car really stuck with me, it was a car the owner took out to the track on trackdays, and had enough balls to embarrass ricer boy's fill in the blank with his girlfriend in the passenger seat. This car was a bare-knuckled gritty street racer. This is what I am really wanting to do, is breathe life into an otherwise dead 308. Update the suspension, throw in hotter cams (if they exist), and replace the muffler with cans off a Ducati. All unnecessary interior luxuries are boxed up, sold, whatever-door panels, radio, carpet. "The F40 had a pull cable for door handles" school of thought here. I want to throw the white gloves in the trash can and get into the asphalt octogon with this thing! To me, the days of stuffing a 350 in a car to make it a hot rod are long gone. Too many car shows are choked with fiberglass bodied '32 Fords, Chevies, whatever that only see a trailer. Hot rodding isn't that! It is personalization, and flying in the face of the conventional school of thought. I want that ride that makes me giddy (with an F1 exhaust note, nonetheless), on the way to work, and something that I am not scared to give a beating to on a track. I don't want redneck, but something that will ensure you will NOT show up to that wine and cheese soiree unannounced. And It won't be a piece of sh*t with a horsey on it. It will be a piece of sh*t with a FIAT emblem on it Thanks for the replies guys, that car will achieve reality after deployment to Afganiland... Later KFD
We need more of you in the F car land. There's a lot of wank bags that own F cars. cheers edit: you would not be one of the wank bags in case you don't get my sense of humor
hey Dynes, thanks for the reply! Yeah, I am missing some great posts... 308 Milano, you are totally missing my point, dude. Yeah, sorry projects got messed up for you in the past. I had that happen to me, right before Mopars skyrocketed. Its the schools of thought like that, that really make me want to spend money on a dead 308 that would otherwise go into a Smart Car (because a. I have a hard on for minimalist motoring, and b. you can't fit scuba jugs on an Aprilia, no matter how hard you try)! Another bit of insight about me, my main mode of transport has been my motorcycle for the past four years, and moving from Arizona/So-Cal, the bike lost practicality of primary transportation here in Hell, Mississippi. I don't want/need a truck, and want something more noticeable than a mini or a Smart. So instead of thinking Bubba Mullet's Bastardized 308, think Aprilia guy who doesn't want to get soaked in the rain or go down on a sandy road... Thanks guys KFD
cheers dude ... you start doing something crazy like the P car guys do you're all about what I f'g live for .... I don't get the purist gays .. I mean guys
Once these cars reach a point where someone starts thinking of parting them out, as I did with one of mine, if someone can put it back on the road and make it fast, who the hell cares whats under the hood (as long as it isn't Chevy power). At least its not pushing up daisies or rotting away in some barn. I really don't understand some peoples stance on the issue or why they are such purists. It seems some would rather a car be destroyed than be modded in any way. As long as the work reflects the racing heritage and isn't some pimpmobile or a riced out POS, I have no problem. Like I had no problem with the turbo compound supercharged Koenig TR with the full body kit. Gimme one, and ill park it proudly in my garage. Sure, I think its totally wrong to cut up the ugly early 60's cars to make 250 and 330 GTO's, but its even more wrong for Italy to crush them when they find them. Kelly, there was some discussion that a Boxer/TR motor would fit into a 308. Just a thought.
Get home safe. And thanks for serving our country. Cannot wait to see what you create when you get back in Ameriland.....
Thanks Art for the heads up on the V12 308, I am going to that thread as we speak, and thank you Jgoodman, I know there is a beat down 308 that needs life breathed back into it that will show up when I get back... Later KFD
The new owner says he wants to build a correct extended wheelbase 288 GTO clone out of old 21181. Says maybe a hotted 360 motor longitudinal. I say go for it, sounds fun. About 10 years ago I heard of a project, a guy was supposedly building a longitudinal V-12 GTO clone from a 308. The goal was twin turbocharged/aftercooled to 1200 HP, and an all up weight around 2400 pounds, 2 pounds per HP. Never heard anything after. Someone said he was building his own block out of billet, and would run Ferrari heads. Anyone ever hear of it?
All hail kelly! Whether racing or street pipes, has anybody here put Ducati "silencers" on a Ferrari? Both are tuned for high RPMs...
That sounds like the project car that's been at Norwood Performance forever. 308 GTO clone/longitudinal V12 with a billet block and Testarossa heads. It's been passed from owner to owner through the years, and sloooooowly moves forward from time to time.
Any pictures of it? Sounds dangerous. I thought I remembered TR heads going onto it, but its been so long and with Mark building his monster I thought maybe I was daft. I always wondered if they would have to lengthen the wheelbase even further to accommodate a big 12. You know, stretch a 308 5 inches into a 288, then stretch a 288 another 5. So in reality, nothing definite, just a dream thats sort of still alive. At least I can be thankful I wasn't hallucinating about it. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever produced a car with 2 pounds per HP for the street? That really is a dangerous amount of power.
Hahaha! Thanks. If the junkyard dog 308 doesn't come to fruition, I still have my '71 Skylark high school hot rod. Now, remember the 400i and 412 had a G.M. TH400 transmission. The T56 six-speed transmission also has a GM bolt pattern. Anybody else following my demented thought process? Imagine seeing an early seventies musclecar with that wicked exhaust note! I wonder if the V12 would blow carbon cans apart like the Aprilia RSV does! Later KFD
http://jalopnik.com/5377489/blown+chevy-powered-97-z3-for-20000 In no way whatsoever am I affiliated with the car pictured! Image Unavailable, Please Login
