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So this just happened ...!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by eziotestarossa, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. eziotestarossa

    eziotestarossa Karting

    Mar 28, 2014
    86
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Ezio
    My car is currently at a dealer here in Florida having a full engine out service done. I was told that the part you see in the image attached below is the “ Brake booster pump” And the threaded piece broke off when the mechanic took it off.

    Any suggestions on what can be done here ?
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  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    You can replace the pump with an OEM one (I have one in stock) or the internal rotor with an aftermarket one.
     
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  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I have not once seen one of those broken. That includes working at the dealer who sold more BBis' than any other and being in the largest volume dealer during the TR years.

    How do people do that? Use 60 weight oil or something? I am genuinely curious.
     
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  5. eziotestarossa

    eziotestarossa Karting

    Mar 28, 2014
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    Florida
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    I honestly have no idea, I'll post more pictures of my engine service in this tread though, the workshop looks great!
     
  6. eziotestarossa

    eziotestarossa Karting

    Mar 28, 2014
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  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    #6 Steve Magnusson, Mar 4, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
    Having that vacuum pump shaft break at that location has been reported here many times (and mine did, too). See this thread:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/vacuum-pump-on-tr.386800/#post-141830176

    especially post #14 (and the thread in that post) that shows how one member made an aftermarket part with a much improved design without a sharp radius where the diameters change for a fatigue crack to form at that location. Don't know if he still makes them for sale.

    If you do an internet search on "170956 Ferrari", and looks at the images, you'll see others also make a reproduction vacuum pump shaft (but more identical to the original design).
     
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  9. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    What are your thoughts on the necked down area of the OEM part as a shear point to save the splines in the cam?
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Aren't the female splines in a separate coupling piece that mounts into the end of the cam? Maybe having the smallest diameter there is a good idea, but Kerry's part still has that (so would have the same shear strength there) -- Kerry's just doesn't have a super sharp internal corner to promote a fatigue crack forming. My guess would be that the (maybe not well-controlled) heat-treating of the part might be another contributing factor to this failure -- maybe making it needlessly over-brittle.
     
  11. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
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    Wasn't Kerry making new shafts for these pumps? I had one break too...in fact I still have that broken pump around here somewhere.
     
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  13. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Its not part of the cam but you would need to remove the engine and cam to replace that insert assuming of course you can get one still. Im just speculating and sometimes I dont like reinventing a part only to find Ferrari did something for a reason. I cant tell you how many times during a restoration I find something I question but realize they actually put thought into it and their way is the best way. Then of course there are things they did that are just plain stupid.
     
  14. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,876
    How do they get broken?

    speculation... if the pump is not installed in the correct orientation, the drain hole is not at the bottom. Perhaps these pumps are hitting a hydrolock from too much incompressible oil in the pump’s cavity(?)

    Never tried to mis-install it. Can it be installed without the correct orientation?
     
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  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    If you took the locating dowels out you could have it on wrong but otherwise no.
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    have a look here:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/vacuum-pump-on-tr.386800/
    in post 3 you see how I solved the problem.
    originally installed the oil drain hole is not at the buttom. it is 90 ° turned and so the oil inside the pump never may drain complete. when you then start the engine the rest of the oil is still inside the pump and can not drain fast enough but the oilpump delivers more oil what can not be compresse like air and then the shaft will break.
     
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  17. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Fyi gt car parts is where I think I bought my replacement? Cuz the party from Ferrari was $1k, there's was a"reasonable" $450 if I remember correctly. It's an easy replacement.

    Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Tapatalk
     
  18. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    I’ve been rolling with mine broken for 15,000 miles.
     
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  19. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    I have seem more of these broken then not.
     
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  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    and this all without you recognized it. but how you know then that you have been driving those 15.000?
     
  21. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    When I did my engine out I pulled it off and cleaned it up. De burred it. Sealed it back up. It’s just for low RPM braking.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    And like I said I have worked on them daily since long before the TR came out in a couple of the biggest dealers on the planet, shop foreman in the biggest overseeing all the jobs and own one of these and never seen it happen.
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I had a friend with 250,000 miles on his TR and never broke one.

    Not so sure I'd call it a faulty design.
     
  24. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    You get real close to one of my suspicions. Installation. How many have trouble getting the splines to align and get a heavy tool to assist?
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  25. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Say it ain’t so!

    ;)
     
  26. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    could it be cold weather related? Heavy weight oil in the freezing cold could be like sludge in the first second and if you run up the RPM after giving it throttle, maybe it could stick. The designers maybe put that small radius in there to be a circuit breaker instead of breaking the camshaft.
     
  27. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Or a timing belt. I have considered that but broken shafts do not seem to be limited to cold climates.

    My car and my clients get 0-40 or 5-40 oil. I know of many that still like putting syrup in their engines.
     
  28. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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