For me, this is the whole point as well. Given a TR and a 328 for the same money, I would take the 328 without a second's hesitation. If the 328 was more expensive, I'd still buy the 328. And to me, the Boxer is even sexier than the 328, particularly in carburettor form. In my mind, the Boxer is worth 3 TR's, and it's all down to image and styling. So no, the Boxer and TR are not very similar at all, because the package is very, very, very important. Doesn't mean that the TR is not a nice car, and it has its place in history, but I would never own one. All I can say is to you TR lovers: enjoy the fact that you can pick one up for a nice price! It's an awesome car for the money. Onno
Having driven all three varieties of Boxer, I have to disagree. Particularly the 512BB and 512BBi are very much tourers. Long gearing, very smooth engine, slow gear shift. The 365 is a little sportier but still no sportscar. Onno
So Why is the TR half the Boxer (price)?... That would have to be the butt, Bob. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ok...lets see where society is at right now... McDonalds is playing 80's music on the overhead radio, as is every elevator I have been in lately... Madonna, Cher, Prince, are or will be touring... I have seen lots of articles on Gun's and Roses lately... 90210 is being remade... Indiana Jones has come back... Star Wars... has come back KISS has a TV show... OZZY had one... Cabbage patch kids are out again... ATARI games have all been re-released Miami Vice II, came and went You don't have to look long and hard to see that the 80's is having a bit of a rebirth here... Love it or not, kids from the 80's are entering their prime earning years. Its really obvious, at least to advertisers. We have a nice 15 year time span here to relive our youth, before they start spawning RAP in all the same directions for the "next" generation... The world cannot sustain testarossa's at $60,000 for ever... This car is ungodly cheap to buy. Look at all the other "unloved" car's, like maserati Bora's, Espada's and other "lesser" lamborghinis from the 70's. Even the notable undesirable cars tripled in value when their time came. No point in arguing, the car will jump in value...likely tripling, at least... Hell, look at 240z, 914, Karmin Ghia's, early 911's, etc. These cars were mass produced in huge numbers... they are easily 3x their new price...sometimes 4-10x original sticker. Nothing special about them, and throw-aways when new. The testarossa was never a throw-away car... I can easily see this car putting my kids through college one day. Is that a given? Naw. Might I be completely off base? Maybe. Is it as good an investment as lakefront or other land? No. So what. You have to spend your money on something. Might as well buy stuff that appreciates...
The market for Boxers has really skyrocketed recently. I’ve been a following them for years, and it was only a few years ago when I would see Boxers for sale at 100k or below. I’ve even seen some listed in the $80s. Granted, these had been well-driven, and at least one I can think of had a questionable provenance but there were nowhere near the $140 plus I’ve seen lately. Boxer v. TR models discussion….it’s emotion and what strikes your fancy. Since all Boxers are grey market anyway and can’t be brought back once they’ve left the US, their numbers will only decrease over here, hence a gradual reduction in an already limited supply. Meanwhile, Bbi styling is almost austere compared with the TR models, which seems almost over the top now (don’t mean that in a derogatory fashion). Finally, the Boxer is become discovered more and more by folks who have the means. After all, TR posters were de rigeur on every kid’s bedroom wall 20 years ago, but who do you know had a poster of a Boxer. I personally like the simpler styling much better anyway, but that gets back to the 'emotion' thing. Anyway, this coming from a guy who drives a Mazda and is trying to put two kids through college. No Boxer in my immediate future anyway.
Actually, they share some sheet metal and frame, but the more you look the more differences you find in everything from the engine to brakes to the electricals. They even feel different inside. The 308 and 328 really are not the same car. It is a very similar situation to the 512 TR, which looks like it would be essentially the same as the TR but is quite different. Ferrari turned the page mechanically, but hung on to what had been a strong-selling design. Again, I like the 512 TR a lot, but the 328 really is the no-brainer purchase decision among the classic Ferraris. Beautiful to look at, universally recognized, easy to drive, usable performance, reasonable service and parts cost/availability by Ferrari standards, great reliability compared to other Ferraris. I'd argue the 328 is underpriced right now, considering what else you can buy for $60K.
boxers can be brought back to the usa after they are 25 years old. and without doing any dot or epa changes again.
Even though BB prices have firmed up of late, i still think they are a bargain in the exotic car world. Arguably that also means that the TR is twice the bargain.
Ross I didn't know they can be brought back in after 25years. I don't think that was always the case. Assuming that's true, it almost makes moot the point about them being grey market vehicles. After all, except for the '84 models (the last year they were made) *all* Boxers are 25 years old. I know about the 25 year exemption for DOT changes, but I didn't think they could be brought back at all.. Anyway, that's good to know...I've been member of Fchat for a long time, but have been unavoidably absent of late. Nice to be back and see some of the same faces here...
On the topic of grey market cars, Ive never understood the negative aura that surrounds such a car. I would rather have a grey market euro anything, 308, TR, boxer, whatever doesnt matter. They are always better performing and are the designers true vision rather than a car that is adapted with add-ons to meet a north american government requirement. Am I a minority in thinking this way? I would pay a premium for one.
I agree. I had a 73 Maserati Bora that was a european model. I see a guy now is manufacturing replacement bumpers to the european spec for $10k (ouch)! I think it used to be seen as something that you would have continued trouble with since some were modified to meet US specs for entry and done poorly. John
Interesting that you would consider paying a premium for a grey market car. When these cars were new, the grey market cars were a lot cheaper than their US spec counterparts, not to mention their resale was significantly lower, at least back then. The negative aura that surrounded grey market cars, at least back then, was that there were a lot of "hacks" attempting to convert cars to US specs. Often the quality of their workmanship was quite poor, some cars had trouble passing the EPA/DOT regs (remember when the cars were new and recently imported they had to be "smogged" to meet US regs. I've also seen a euro 328 on ebay that had a junky looking high mounted 3rd light tacked right on the body work rather than mounting it in the rear window, and the side markers looked worse than what was stock on the US spec cars. I know grey market cars usually have smaller bumpers, but once you add the smog equipment (although I'm sure today some people have removed it) there isn't going to be much difference in performance. The only company that I know of that really did fantastic work converting cars was Amerispec. They were famous for converting 512BBs, and I believe they were also responsible for certifying some McLaren F1s. I think I may be in the minority on Fchat, and there may be some great grey market cars out there, but I have no interest in grey market cars other than the Amerispec 512BB/i. Best regards, Dino
Unfortunately a lot of Masers of the 1970's (Boras, Meraks, and Khamsins) had some rediculously large and/or hideous bumpers. The US bumpers on Masers often made the front end (or in the case of the Khamsin, the back end) look competely different from the Euro cars. Best regards, Dino
The BB is so sexy and elegant at the same time. A true master piece of a design. The last Scaglietti hand build car. Here are some pictures to remind every one how great these cars are... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I wouldn't buy a gray market car that had a factory engineered US model available. Obviously the Boxer doesn't fall into that category. Generally, the factory does a better job of engineering the changes for US compliance than most third parties. I'd like to know: does the 25 year exemption apply for both EPA and DOT, or just DOT? I can find reference to it for DOT fairly easily, but nothing for EPA.
Sorry Charlie, There is nothing about a TR that even remotely resembles a fat assed big titted girl in looks or market aspect. There is nothing disjointed about the blend of the curving fender crests and straight lines that tie it all together. The ENZO is a disjointed shape. The TR is a PERIOD design from the early eighties. It can NEVER be compared to an earlier design and especially not to a later design because the initial premise was to DEPART from the established (BOXER) and take a place in the future so why even bother trying to compare the two?. Apples to Oranges. A person will either love it or hate it. Obviously you hate it, good for you. Fortunately for me , I like TR's AND Boxers.
Beautiful Geno. The 365 is the same colour mine apparently was when it was new. One silly question: why do both cars sport the same number plate? Onno
I guess we need to define what a grey market car is. I assumed it meant the car was not for the north american market and did not meet the standards therefore it was unconverted. If its converted then it is for our market and no longer a grey market car, correct? I would pay a premium for an unconverted grey market car not one that was hacked to meet the standards here. My boxer is an unconverted (grey market) swiss car and I wouldnt want it any other way.