So, will testarossa’s EVER go up in value? | Page 5 | FerrariChat

So, will testarossa’s EVER go up in value?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by bpu699, May 15, 2024.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    This goes on in every car forum....including of all things a Jeep Wrangler forum I'm on. Even they ask "is my Jeep a unicorn?", or "how much will my Wrangler 392 appreciate after they stop making them?"

    This will go on as long as collectible (here is the rub, most have NO idea what will make for a truly collectible car.....even here on F-Chat) cars are an asset class.

    I mean people are still "investing" in baseball cards....
     
  2. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,011
    Only if the USD becomes scarce ... nope

    Or nukes start flying ... maybe
     
  3. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,727
    Santa Monica, CA
    100% agree, $100k should be MAX for a low mile serviced no paintwork car.
     
  4. randy1

    randy1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2020
    13
    The value really should be higher and go up (iconic car, analog driving experience, other subjectively 'less interesting' cars are valued at more, etc.).

    As a snap comment, it totally gives the vibe of a car that should be a $225-$325K final-sale price car today, subject to mileage (5K to 35K), 10% more for single-mirrors, certain colors, and document super-celebrity owner history, and 20% more for sub 5K miles.

    But never mind that :). I ultimately believe it won't go up much from where it actually is now. IMO the primary reason isn't perception on service cost or similar stifling demand. It's primarily the stable ratio of baseline number made (lots), current supply (lots), and current baseline demand (not much).

    On the "sure, but what about the Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini so on and so forth, that has more supply and went up x fold?". But that's part of the picture, as it's about supply and demand. Then the "but the testarossa is so much more iconic". That's the catch: it has stayed iconic, it hasn't had a "sudden" accelerative appreciation/hype moment or consequence of events, where the growth speed in demand suddenly spikes or at least snowballs in a quick manner (to ratio of current supply in that moment) for new-norm price levels to be set. There are so many examples of moments, but the larger the supply, the more intense and quick the moment needs to be. Integra Type R and Surpas - teenagers could never afford this in the 1990s and 2000s but now as adults with some coin available during pandemic, they rushed to pick it up (and those who had one kept it, reducing supply). Ford vs Ferrari movie comes out and owners get impatient with builds, and the GT40 replicas shoot up (and those who had one kept it, reducing supply). Youtubers hype manual murcielagos and the word gated (when 2002-2003 murcielagos are manual and a hefty percentage of 2004-2006 are manual too) and those go up (and those who had one kept it, reducing supply). There are better examplles.

    Then Bring A Trailer. That website has affected Testarossas more than several other models. Every week or two, one is listed, 10 people who don't bid comment (paint readings, belt service, what to watch out for, why isn't something a certain way) which is amusing, and it sells for notably below list price of other cars. BAT is great but think of it like Groupon. The Testarossa is becoming a groupon product thanks to BAT. The market sees it as a deal site for Testarossas. Fair play! Everyone piles in on the "oh but BAT IS market, that is what someone is willing to pay!". No it's not lol. That's buyer-side speak. That's what deal-seeking folks on a deal-trained Make & Model, are ready to pay in a time-boxed moment. If you own any car and a comparable sells on BAT for notably less than what dealerships set it for, you're going to re-think saying BAT's market. So for the testarossa, that's one dynamic that needs to change :).

    The good news is owners who experience jumps in value of their special-interest cars, may suggest that it doesn't ultimately benefit them as existing owners (who broadly want the value to go up). If a 20K mile clean 1988 testarossa goes up to $225K, are you going to sell the car? To put that liquidity where, into something else more interesting than a testarossa? Surely not, the car is wonderful, aren't you more inclined to keep it? Separately why do you want it to go up in value... the feeling of swanning around in a more price exclusive car only lasts a few weeks, then permanently psychologically coax folks into driving it less.

    We are all very blessed to be discussing this topic - LOL.
     
    mrp_e likes this.
  5. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    26,158
    Full Name:
    Avvocato
    liberals use feelings … I’m using facts :p
    .. Facts are the GTO is part of the halo car set up and the Testarossa is the Rodney Dangerfield followed very closely by the bb boxer. Don’t shoot the messenger
     
  6. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,011
    And a fiat currency that's based on feelings ... and perpetually devalued. :D

    What matters is where the TR is in the F hierarchy.
     
  7. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,452
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    Testarossa's get more attention than many "new" ferrari's.

    Biggest bang for the buck in ferrari-land, even the "math" works out.

    Buy a newer ferrari for $400k. 5 years later its likely worth 300k or less. Buy a testarossa, even factoring in a 20k$ major, you're ahead.

    If you are looking for "performance", the new car always wins. If you are looking for "wow factor"... its different...
     
  8. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    26,158
    Full Name:
    Avvocato
    so do fake boobies - that doesn’t mean it’s better :p

    end of the day, the market has been speaking on Testarossa’s for 40yrs already. Its done NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP in the increase value segment, forget the collection segment, that ship has sailed! Will never be considered a collector car like a Dino, Daytona or Countash etc .. that was my point over all

    I never said anything about the car being bad or what not. All I said was why is everyone so worried about its value now ? LOL …. The car is and will always be “ worthless” financially.
     
    Shark01 likes this.
  9. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,290
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Just drive them and enjoy it. If they are to valuable, you would be afraid to drive it.
     
    TheMayor, turbo-joe and OldSaul87 like this.
  10. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,011
    At 40, the 246 was the same price the Testarossa is at 40
    https://www.theclassicvaluer.com/cars/ferrari/dino-246-gts


    Countach looks like fake boobs up close. The 25th looks like very fake boobs with a TR cherry on top, blindfolded, from around the corner. :D
    Name another Ferrari whose styling cues Lambo copied.

    If the TR was a Lambo it would cost more than the Countach, be less usable, have no interior space,
    the gauges would be scattered with a slingshot, and it'd have a shovel for a gear lever/knob. :)

    Granted, the shorter front overhang and Bertone badge, would be cool.
     
    versamil and raysur like this.
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    99,207
    Vegas baby
    They made a lot of TR's. That's one problem. And they ain't the cheapest to maintain albeit a lot easier than a Countach. Also they were built really as GT's and not sports cars. I don't know anyone who would call a Countach "a GT".

    But the real question is does the visual design look better today than it did in the 80's. I personally don't think so. And the TR was a bit of a dead end styling wise. The Countach wasn't.

    Believe it or not there was a time when no one wanted a Dino. Not a Ferrari, old looking, kinda crude construction, breakdown too much, not particularly fast. Everyone wanted 308's which were much better and faster cars with a more modern look, easier to drive, and easier to maintain.

    Today people prefer the 246 look over the 308. And you can't make a car of that size, construction (aka chrome bumpers) and proportions anymore,

    I don't think the TR fits with the criteria. Lastly Boxers have flattened in price. They have to go way up before TR's do.
     
    Shark01 likes this.
  12. Grease Donkey

    Grease Donkey Karting

    Jul 5, 2018
    109
    Zurich, Switzerland
    While the arguments concerning design, collectability, production numbers etc are all correct currently, you are missing a point: you folks were mostly born in the 1960s or earlier. You will be sellers not buyers.

    (Almost) No one born in the 70s or later knows what a Boxer is. (Almost) All know the TR. Very few people outside this forum actually know that the Boxer and TR are technically related.

    As a new generation of buyers will enter the market, values will follow that generational shift.

    Remember pre-war? Or 50s cars? Even 60s cars are already affected (Bristol, Jag, ..).
     
  13. Grease Donkey

    Grease Donkey Karting

    Jul 5, 2018
    109
    Zurich, Switzerland
    PS: Maybe it's the right moment for @Newman to expand into the TR restoration market
     
    Newman likes this.
  14. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    26,158
    Full Name:
    Avvocato
    The reality is - nobody is buying TR at 300-400-500k … you can show all your charts, graphs studies and excuses you want.
    There are thousands , not hundreds , but thousands of post on threads in here if you care to search on the bashing of the TR Put that on a chart. The up and coming kids and money don’t want them or the bb boxer ! …. Look up the last 5 TR sales on bring a trailer and on RM auction list, then look up the Hagerty …. Put that on a graph !
     
  15. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    26,158
    Full Name:
    Avvocato
    the bb boxer has been on life support for ages. Outside of Ferrari circles, nobody knows what it is - has an identity crises as a 308 and that will always stick. Just like the 348 being branded as the worst Ferrari made. The car can’t and won’t shake that imagine. Just as the Dino has the most beautiful design moniker stick.
    The TR had a chance to be iconic because of the opulence of the 80s. The TR made a social impact, it could not be mistake for anything but a Ferrari , it was the car that put them on the map globally in movies, athletes etc .. unfortunately the owners that have them today are already prime .. in thier 50s /60s … the big money 30yrs old are not buying … the few that are , are not serious wealth to being the car to status like the Daytona and Dino. Dino gts prices not only holding but climbing. The last auctions are proof of that. Heck, the tax money and auction fee on a Dino at auction is the price of a TR !
     
    TheMayor and turbo-joe like this.
  16. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    99,207
    Vegas baby
    I've reached that point in life where the new stuff doesn't interest me anymore and I want something more nostalgic from a time when you lusted over something but it was out of reach, but now its not anymore. My last new car was a 458 spider. And, its a really good car. Ridiculously fast with an amazing, exciting engine. But all those that have come after it haven't excited me as much as bringing back something from the past has. I drive a 328 now. I get a kick out of it and I like making sure its going to survive into the future.

    And for the TR that certainly will be the case for many. The only question is will there be the supply vs the demand for people to want it and afford it. If that happens, prices will go up. If not, they will flatten. Its all about supply and demand.

    I look at some classic pre-war cars and I'm shocked at their prices compared to post war cars. Look at Cord 812's for example. Many of these pre-war cars are very rare, very beautiful, perfectly restored, and surprisingly cheap compared with cars of the 50's. 60's and 70's. Its all about supply and demand.
     
    mrp_e likes this.
  17. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    9,009
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    and I´m shocked about the prices for VW 23 window buses - nearly same price as testarossa
     
  18. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    Alot of good points here (the bolded part I referenced upthread). An additional point, the 550 has now generally jumped the standard TR in price (condition still counts). And is it a coincidence that the 348 (with similar styling) also lags in the market place for V8s?

    I drove a 550 some 12 years ago when they were $100k. At the same time, I was also considering buying Michael Anthony's (Van Halen) Boxer for $150k. So flat certainly describes Boxer pricing since.
     
    TheMayor likes this.
  19. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    And old Broncos....some market segments are mystifying.
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,211
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    As mentioned earlier, supply and demand. They made too many of them for the small pool of potential buyers that wants an old car with a reputation for being expensive to own with no potential upside.

    I also see a shift in the boxer market to the injected cars from the BB512 which makes me think of the stone I drive, my 400i. I reach in the window and the car starts, no fuel smell, no sneezing, no monkey business, it seems practical in a way - I must be getting old. I see the 400i increasing in desirability for those reasons, you read it here first ;)

    Back to the Testarossa. I had an 89 and loved the look and it's a car people fumble with their phones to get a picture of but an educated buyer knows what they're in for and they'll weigh the pros and cons before buying and entering that love / hate relationship. To some it's too much so they buy a 360 instead.
     
  21. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,011
    If a buyer rates cliches and the peanut gallery's feelings higher than his personal prefs then he 100% deserves to buy into the latest "day trading" fad.

    Anyone can see what's already manifest. The argument that it won't be worth that because it's not worth that is an obvious fallacy.

    Pound per pound the Isetta and Fiat 500 beat most of the exotic cars' appreciation.
    If those are too luxurious, the Messerschmitt KR or Jawa Velorex are even better.

    Bat - is that the place where educated car guys pay $50k for a Rabbit?
     
  22. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,011
    You're off by about 20y, even for Europe
     
  23. mrp_e

    mrp_e Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2003
    897
    Coasts
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I've always been a sucker for the 400i, love the shape.
     
    Newman likes this.
  24. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,647
    Dubai / Bologna
    The lack of practicality is what makes the Countach pretty unique; in some ways that difficult experience is what people pay for. It is as ‘exotic’ and memorable as you would expect.

    I used to drive my TR to work and take it shopping. Ferrari actually made a really useable ‘real’ car. My wife likes driving it. After my wife’s Mondial 3.2 Cab, it is the most boring exotic we have.

    In comparison, if I know I am driving the LP400S in the morning I practice the route in my head and cannot sleep well the night before. Even after 10,000+ km in Countaches I still get nervous before I take them out. That is why the experience is different (and probably why I would pay more for it).
     
    mrp_e and Shark01 like this.
  25. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,011
    In the US. And if you really count condition it still hasn't.


    Did it change its position in the F hierarchy? No, it's moving with the market like pretty much everything.

    The 348 has TR styling like the 308 has BB styling.

    https://drives.today/upload/000/u1/b/5/c20dbbea.jpg
     

Share This Page