Some Corvette owners' wet dream of a Ferrari killer under $100K

Sean,
If you think that, with equal drivers, an Evora will keep up, lap after lap, with a C7 GS, then I don't know what to tell you.

And GM has not even admitted there IS a mid-engine Corvette. YOU keep throwing out 3,600 pounds as a GM NUMBER...it is not (I've pointed this out about 10 times), it is a CAR AND DRIVER number.
I have NO idea what the car will weigh, and I certainly can't tell by LOOKING at it.

 

Jimmy

I drive an exige V6 cup 2400lbs 360hp, the price paid is its crude small tight and no luxuries, its focussed for the task at hand which is pure driving/performance. Hence its very limited market appeal in an era where heavier Gt cars are really what people want for comfortable street use.
An evora though weights around 3000lbs and has 400hp, given its handling it may well give a Gs a run for its money. I dont know that a Gs can lap LRP in under a minute but Ive seen an evora do that. We also know from the various auto mags than an evora will lap all day at full pace without wilting, not saying a gs will or wont. I do know that if its a day on track, say 50 laps then a Gs is infintely superior to a z06 and will over the 50 laps probably post a better average laptime than the z06. Well the z06 is not doing 50 laps without two sets of tires and one fresh set of pads.

I think the larger point I keep trying to make is this. The sportscar as opposed to the really fast Gt car world is moving more and more to cars that will work out the box on track, because frankly thats the place they can be really used. We see an explosion of trackdays and track clubs as a result. Additionaly as Ferrai and Mcalren to name two have discovered there is little point in adding more hp to cars that will be used on track, the future performance race will also be very much about weight. On track, ie really using a car on track all day weight is everything.

For sure most people dont want to make the compromise a really light car requires no mater how exotic the materials used, so I dotn think we'll see street exotics regardles of manufactuerer too much below a real 3000lbs, even the faster "track" versions simply because the machine will become too uncompromising and spartan. Its also true that the faster turboed exotics today are simply overpowered on track and not really able to employ that power, they simply have it reigned in by the computer.

We do know with 99.9% certainty there is a Me vette coming we just dont know which show or event is the launch. From whats leaked we also believe that possibly there will be 3 engines. A 500 hp version of the current pushrod motor for the base car, a 650 hp 5.4 NA quad cam V8 and a TT V8 of over 800hp, later to possibly be joined with hybridization. If leaks are to believed, and based on what we saw with the C7 weight is going to be go up still and be above 3500lbs. Thats a function of asking a lot of things from one car and cost, meaning its not a cf tub etc. True its all specualtion so far, but its speculation based on some realistic info and past experience.

Where I think the C7 went backwards(based on what I look for in track capable car) is that Gm got lazy, instead of investing in a version that lost weight to get k "real" track performance and sustainance, they just added lots more relatively cheap supercharged Hp, happy in the knowledge that regardless of weight for 1 lap and some dragstrip times it would put down impressive numbers, and it sure does.

To me the C7 ZR1 and Z06 are like a lamborghini aventador or porche turbo. Totaly cool looking totaly outrageous powerful exotic cars, however none of them are great track cars for more than 3 laps.
If I lived in FL arizona etc somwhere with big open roads I cant think of a more exciting outrageous car to tool around in than a Zr1, I would certainly take it over a porche turbo in that enviroment. On track though its very different.

If and its an if, chevy is going to do the same cynical excercise as they did with the C7 then to me the Me vette is a dud. If the Me car was designed to be all excess hp without a focus on weight, then like a veyron its not fixable. However as we saw with the C5 and C6 z06 chevy engineers very well understand the virtues of low weight. Possibly, hopefully there is enough potential goodness baked in that at some point in the future we get a 3000lbs 650 hp version.

Its all a question and speculation though. Every decade or two we get a new vette platform and the later versions of a platform are signifiantly different to the early versions. We also know that Gm has some serious edicts like two golf bags degrees of comfort that work against other factors. Its also possible they targeted wrong just as acura did with the new NSX. Its hard to turn a heavy Gt car into a real sprotscar/track car and its hard to turn a track car into a road car. Few are able to straddle both, but some do exceptionaly well.

In any event if porche can make so many flavors of 911 from 3800lbs turbos to 3000lbs Gt3s hopefully we will see a similar cross section in vette land. To me its just a function of what the comitees at Gm allowed the engineers to do, or how much goodness the engineers were able get past the comitees. That the corvette team is capable there is no question, that there are new and exciting powerplants coming seems true too.

Persoanly I love the looks of the C8R pictures we saw published. Make mine with C8R bodywork, 650 nahp and around 3000lbs. I got 150k ready to spend on such a machine today. A 850hp TT 3800lbs car no interest at all. Can one platform do both?

Performance has many metrics depending on use. On track you have to start with weight.

 

Please explain to me what exactly that is. You are new here, and certainly your opinions matter but after owning 459 cars (including 7 Ferrari's which technically were not the best of those 459), exactly what is a Corvette mentality? I don't mean to be rude, but I am autistic, and I don't understand if you meant that as an insult or there is by some known definition a corvette mentality.

 

^^^^
I think what he's saying is that Corvettes don't have the prestige and don't cost enough to suit his needs.

 

That's how I interpret it too. I've come expect better from members here.

 

I've been a Corvette guy most of my adult life, and I think it's great to see what Chevy is doing currently. But, can't a person buy an exotic based solely on his personal preferences regardless of performance without being looked down upon about how much he paid for it? I have no problem paying a lot of money for the car I WANT knowing that a Subaru could easily outperform it. I make no excuses about it either.

 

Racing heritage

 

Okay, I get it, thanks guys. Sorry but I don't understand nuances, and it is difficult for me to figure out meaning when I cannot find a definition of something.

 

The engineers (actually one, Dave Hill) of the C5/C6 wasn't in love with low weight as much as he was with profitability. Go sit in a C5/C6 and then a C7 and you can see where some of the C7's weight came from. The interiors of the C5 and C6 were LAUGHABLE (I had 2 of each) compared to the C7. No doubt they were LIGHT, put the quality was no where. So, while the C6 Z06 was commendably light, it still got dinged WAY more for it's crappy interior than it was praised for it's light weight.
And weight is JUST one metric that applies to track performance and consumables. A Porsche Carrera 2 and a GT3 are very similar cars, but the GT3 will consume a lot more tires/brakes/etc because it is SO much faster with much higher cornering loads.

 

You raise some interesting point that the interior added all the weight to the C7. Its interesting because the C7 used the prior c6 zo6 aluminum subframe yet was heavier than a stock c6. Maybe youre right, but I find it hard to believe an interior added that much more weight, possbly sturdier body panels a bit more wheelbase, and maybe just stifening up the car all contributed, plus if you add weigth and power everything else has to be beefier adding weight again. By that basis add a quad cam motor(definitely heavier than a sbc) and better luxury to the Me car and weight goes up again.
Loosing weight costs more than adding hp.

Gt3 is a lot lighter than a Carrera2, its the luxuries in the C2 and lack of lightweigth materials. As to consumable thats also directly proportional to the speed A Gt3 can attain then braking for corners, going through and out of a bend. Brakes and tires being the key cosnulables diretly related to a combination of velocity and weight.

Theres also always a question as to whether were talking dry weight which most manufacturers do and wet weight(ie real weight)with some options which easily adds 200-300lbs to the dry weight of a two seater.

We might also look to the spec of the car being weighted, the C2 quoted by porche figures are for a very base car, realisticaly a c2 is 300lbs heavier than a Gt3. For comparison my 2400lbs weight for the exige V6 is my actual car on scales with half tank of gas, full roll cage and fire system, so we have great real power to, weight. Ill beta Gt3 similarily caged fired and wet will be more like 3300 to 3400lbs. Even the Senna which is quoted at just under 2800lbs with all the lightweight extra options no ac etc is really going to struggle to be under 3000lbs wet.

However I think your point is very valid, the extra build/quality in a C7 must be very much related to the extra weight even with the aluminum subframe. In the end a C7 is an evolved C5 chassis and the motor is still a SBC. Considder to that the SBC is really a very light motor for the power and we see ferrari and Mclaren have done a sterling job to get their dry weights so much lower than vette esp when comparing a 720 to the z06 Zr1, of course they have done it at over double the price.

Lets see what the vette team can do with the Me car. When they were focussing on the C6 weight we got a zo6 with balsa sandwich floorboards magnesium and Cf. IUf the base Me car is as rumored around 70k and if they charge 150k for a truly "trackable" Me car I would think that between some CF bodypanels(which we see on c7 already) Cf seats and general attetion to weight loss they should be able to get down to a 3000lbs dry weight, or at least i hope so.

Exciting stuff.

 

The C7 does NOT use the C6 Z06/ZR1 aluminum frame. It is a completely new frame, specific to the C7 and is heavier than the C6 Z06/ZR1 frame (it is aluminum also) but lighter than the steel frame used in the C6/C6GS/C6 427 convertible.
Note that the C6 Z06/ZR1 frame was not structurally stout enough to be a targa or convertible. C6 Z06/ZR1's had the targa top bolted in and were not removable. The C7 uses the SAME exact frame for ALL models, coupe or convertible.
And according to Porsche's website:
Carrera T manual: 3,142 pounds
GT3 manual: 3,116 pounds
That's apples to apples, base car to base car. And the GT3 is 26 pounds lighter. Now, does anyone buy a no option Carrera T? Probably not, but no one buys a no option GT3 either. And options pile on the pounds, with very few exceptions (CCM brakes for instance) which are standard on a ZR1 and optional on a GT3/GT3RS.

We all wish EVERY car was lighter, but the market wants and demands niceties that, by their nature, add weight.

 

The Corvette mentality is (IMO) a punk car. ie I thought it was cool when I was in high school so I'll get one when I'm old and cool. You see them Everywhere, I mean everywhere. They a dime a dozen. Ever guy with a comb over owns one. At a car show they won't even talk to you if you drive a Ferrari, been in many shows and they all talk about you behind your back. Saying "he thinks he's cool cause he has an expensive Italian piece of crap" " I'm cool cause I drive the only true American sports car"
Oh and yes this is a fairly new account. I lost my sign in on my older account. Old age I guess. I have CRS ( can't remember ****) and again this is my opinion from the experiences I've had at shows. I don't do mixed car shows anymore. I strictly do Exotics Car Show and everybody is on the same page.

I had bought an 88 Vette convertible new and 88 911 Carrera a month apart. I kept the Corvette for only 3 years hated it. The Porsche I kept till 2008. It how you feel when you drive a car more than the performance. The Vette would kill my 911 in a straight line. But it would never take the corners like my Porsche did.

To each his own. That's all.

Sent from my SM-J727T using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

^^^^
I really don't know what to say to you....to each his own and we are entitled to OUR opinion.

So, the last Corvette you drove was 30 years ago? Now days, and being generic, Porsche is faster in a straight line, and Corvettes corner better.

 

I really never understood the “you see them on every corner” arguments. Who cares? You really should be secure enough in yourself that you don’t need a car to feel special.

 

^^^^
I agree. I see a LOT more 911's than Corvettes on a day to day basis.

 

I guess you're a real high roller?

 

I think we should all drive corvettes porches and ferraris etc. The danger is all the minivans and appliances which are ruining cars as a hobby.
Or put another way we all have a lot in common with hot rodders and kit car owners, were all on the same enthusiast team.
Within that though there are stereotypes, and over time those sterotypes change. Lambos were gold chain cars, today they are arguably more of an enthusiast car than a ferrari. Mustang drivers have developed a stereotype for crashing comming out of cars and coffee. Camaro drivers were for many years mullet clowns. BMWS were yuppie ******* maobiles, now theyre driven by SUV soccer moms..
A lot of Vette owners are in the retirement basbell cap wearing driving slow in the left lane crowd.
Harley long ago lost its real biker cred and became the wannabe dentist biker pose etc.

Lots of these stereotypes have validity, and its also true that over time the product evolves and changes so new stereotypes apply. Thats also why a ME vette is being built, to appeal to people below age 60.

On track though, 8 out of 10 evtte drivers are slow on corners floor it on the straights and are disinclined to give poitnby's because theyre in a vette and R&T said its the fastest car, those guys are fun to lap. But then you see a few younger vette owners who are really experienced drivers and who know their car, and their driving is magic art, Thing is you can buy a used vette for 30k put 10-15k into it and run with the big dogs.

To me there are two types of car people, polishers who cruise to concors cars and coffe etc, and those who really drive. 80+% of enthusiasts belong to the former, very few to the latter, except lotus owners, probably because unless youre primarily into drivign a lotus is a poor choice. In ferrari land its probably 90+% cruisers.

Given how many vettes are rpoduced epr year that meas if the driver quotient is 5% of the total, you'll always see a few vettes being driven hard. Lets hope that this time Gm makes enough versions that we get a vette for those of us who really care.

 

Interesting-I guess anybody that can buy a new Z06 can also buy as used Ferrari like yours-like the ones I see on every corner here in Orange County. I have owned seven figure F-cars and Corvettes well under 100K-I enjoy them both. Imagine that. I also see no need to constantly belittle someone else's choice-if you find Corvette's so plebeian, stay out of this forum and head over to the Ferrari accessories page.

 

Like I said in the beginning. This is MY Opinion. I don't care if you like it or not. And you shouldn't care about my opinion. It doesn't mean anything to you, just me.

Sent from my SM-J727T using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Stating something as "my opinion" is perfectly fine; however, readers will try to assess the gravitas of someone's opinion using many factors: experience, language of argument, rationale of arriving at that opinion, and supporting assertions--to name just a few.

Discussing the driving characteristics of corvettes as a general statement based upon owing one 30 years ago demonstrates, to me anyway, a shallow-based opinion, and thus not worthy of serious consideration.

I currently have numerous Ferrari's, and a Porsche GT3, and until recently had a manual transmission C7 Z06. The 'vette was a hilarious event every time I drove it. It was amazingly fun and fast driving it on Sebring too. It garnished a great deal of enthusiastic "thumbs ups" and friendly conversations everywhere I went with it.
I was willing to get rid of it because it was too fast for true full-use fun on the roads. Thinking about a Grandsport instead, but need to build a bigger garage.

Corvettes are iconic wonderful fun cars to own and drive, a view shared by hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps millions; thus I would consider those statements as "facts."

 

His entire conjecture is shallow. Anyone interested in cars doesn't care what another car person has or drives or likes. It's all about loving the car (or whatever vehicle), brand, model or type doesn't matter. Having an opinion is one thing, but calling an entire population of Corvette lovers "punks" is indicative of a "poser".

 

It would be bad enough outside of this particular thread. To say it here is blatant trolling, and (IMO) worthy of at least a slap on the wrist from the mod team.

 

This might be my fault, I tend to offend people (since it is impossible to offend me) since I look at cars as merely machines without feeling or emotions. I forget that just about everyone else does. What I tried to say earlier is that a cars stats are merely that, and if you look at them that way without seeing the badge, you can fairly judge them. Now I do see all cars that way, which is why I've had so many, I find things to like about many different cars. I have only owned 3 corvettes, and 41 Porsche's, so based on that I guess I found more to like (and for me like means take them apart a rebuild them) in a Porsche. I could not fairly judge a modern Porsche against a 924, nor could I judge a 30 year old Corvette against a C7. But I have been told by people who got sick drinking gin 40 years ago, they can still not drink it. Maybe that works for cars as well. I don't think banning someone for being having emotions and feelings does anyone justice.

 

I agree, and wasn't advocating a ban. I believe Thehawiiangecko is, however, trolling this thread, and that's against the TOU.

Maybe we could all chip in and send him a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People.

I'd do it myself, but I'm a poor-ass punk corvette type.

 

Let's face it...there's SO much bad information in this thread that it really doesn't matter at this point. We've got outrageous OVERSTATEMENTS about current Corvettes and their track prowess/durability, not to mention, outright INCORRECT info on the current C7 and the recent past C5/C6. We have blanket generalizations about Corvette owners and their place in the car universe. And in the end, the Corvette OWNERS enjoy their cars, just like Porsche owners, Ferrari owners, McLaren owners, Lamborghini owners, etc.

Truly sad that folks have taken the "READY/FIRE/AIM/" stance on an iconic car.