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Some days are better than others. Not to-day!

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by 308mon, Jun 7, 2015.

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  1. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #1 308mon, Jun 7, 2015
    Decided to give the Mondial a "spin" to-day after some exhaust gasket replacement/front brake caliper/front wheel bearing work.

    Beautiful sunny day here in the UK (for a change) so really looked forward to a "spin" with the sunroof open. Ten miles down the road and noticed the water temperature gauge heading toward the top peg!

    Just recently replaced all the coolant with new mix and thought maybe the boiling point is wrong with this mix. Pulled over and let the poor beast cool down. Once the steam cleared I checked the header tank and sure enough coolant has boiled out.

    Bled the front radiator and plenty of coolant there and much too cool - so must be the water pump me thinks. Sure enough the water pump belt has melted, not broken, and come adrift due to what appears to be a seized water pump.

    So - after a nearly two hour return journey of stop/cool down/run and coast with engine off/stop/cool down/repeat many times - I managed to nurse the beast home.

    Now I wonder if changing the coolant mix a couple of weeks back has any bearing on the water pump seizure (pun intended)?

    No prizes for guessing what I'll be up to this coming week!

    PS: I really must give thanks to the field full of calves that came over to mooch and shoot the breeze whilst I waited at one particular cool down spot. Wish I had had a camera with me at the time.
     
  2. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #2 Bell Bloke, Jun 7, 2015
    Aye! I really wouldn't have done that 308mon, no water pump turning means you are going to get zero circulation in your engine block around the liners, that's very bad.
    Anyway too late now, so hopefully no damage done to the engine and it's just a water pump.
    Sorry not a very helpful post from me after the fact but hopefully it won't happen again.
    All the best Bell
     
  3. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #3 308mon, Jun 7, 2015
    Agree about not running it but needs must. Hence the 2 hours taken to get it back 10 miles. Letting it cool right down, topping up with expensive bottled water (nice walk first stop to the nearest store whilst it cooled, not quite as enjoyable walking back with numerous large bottles of mineral water underarm) and coasting much of the way with engine off (luckily the route back was mostly downhill). Will get a boroscope down and around the liners when I pull the water pump for inspection and everything crossed that there is no lasting damage due to the lack of circulation.

    Oh the joys of these ancient beasts!
     
  4. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #4 Bell Bloke, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2015
    10 miles in 2 hours, OK you'll be fine that's a sensible rate of progress given the circunstances.
    It's just that you do read horror stories of people who just drive on regardless.
    I know given your description you didn't do that, but it did sound as though you might have driven more than 10 miles in 2 hours which was not the case.
    2 and 1/2 miles in say 4 stints over 2 hours with no water pump is fine and would not in my humble opinion damage the engine at all.
    Good luck with the fix, Superformance do water pumps in the uk, excellant service and products.
     
  5. FCnew

    FCnew Formula Junior

    May 5, 2015
    687
    Hong Kong / Canada
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    #5 FCnew, Jun 7, 2015
    .

    Whew
     
  6. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2012
    7,093
    street,md
    Full Name:
    fred brown
    #6 srephwed, Jun 7, 2015
    At least you had no parts exiting the crankcase. THAT is not a good day. The beauty of the mondial and 308 is that your repair is extremely easy. Good luck.
     
  7. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #7 308mon, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks to all for the thoughts and suggestions. Will be removing the water pump sometime during Monday and inspect the pump and engine.

    I see that Superformance list an inexpensive pump, may give them a call for more info although I will more than likely strip and re-build the existing pump (depending upon what I find when the pump is removed).

    PS: Quick photo of water pump belt this bright and sunny morning.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. 123howie

    123howie F1 World Champ

    Jul 3, 2014
    16,017
    El Segundo CA
    Full Name:
    Howie
    #8 123howie, Jun 8, 2015
    I would pass on getting that belt rebuilt.
     
  9. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #9 Bell Bloke, Jun 8, 2015
  10. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #10 308mon, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #11 308mon, Jun 8, 2015
    BB, many thanks for the link to your belt post.
     
  12. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #12 308mon, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,261
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    #13 MvT, Jun 8, 2015
    oooh! that's agonizing to get home! :eek:

    The mix is quite impossible to be the root cause of the seized water pump. The seal is infront of the bearings. If the seal was leaking it would have happened anyway sooner or later.

    I had now 2 water pumps of SF and the both lasted 5000 miles and started to leak. I rebuild my old one. has no 4K on it, see how long that will last.
     
  14. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #14 308mon, Jun 8, 2015
    I agree with you about the new coolant mix MvT. The front seal was perished and the pump bearings and shaft have suffered as a result. Half-way thru the strip-down I lost the will to live (far too sunny a day here in the UK to be messing with bearings and polishing my shaft....oooerrr.....that does not read right).

    So new water pump due to be delivered Tuesday. I'll fix up the original pump later in the year and just enjoy more time relaxing in the sun this week.

    Engine boroscope of the cylinder internals looks OK and the engine "smells" OK (I'm of the old obsolete - some would say decrepit - school when we were taught that smell and taste in the mouth can give an indication if some mechanical or electrical piece of kit has a problem or not).

    Will try and take more photos when progress is made and I may also pass by my new bovine friends in the field where I stopped by the gate yesterday and take a group shot. Once they had all sauntered over to the gate they showed a great deal of interest in the Mondial, although one did moo..an about there not being snacks available.
     
  15. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    #15 Rapalyea, Jun 13, 2015
    It seems unlikely, but not impossible. A persistent air/bubble at the water pump could cause overheating and seizure. Every complicated cooling system such as we have are a bit delicate. The glycol/coolant mix is irrelevant in such a case. But the coincidence of recent coolant change can not be dismissed - but not because of the mix.

    The coolant system on our cars simply terrifies me. Thats why I do not ever plan to change it. I believe it already has 'lifetime' coolant. And even if not it is clean and green. Or whatever color it is. Two years ago I incrementally used a turkey baster to remove coolant from the reservoir and step by step changed the mix to to 60/40. I then added about half a bottle of barsleak/lubricant (a small dose given the two hundred gallons in the system) then depressurized the system. Just turned the coolant cap enough to close off splash coolant loss.

    Two years and going on 11,000 miles later have not added a single ounce. I live at 2000 ft elevation and often run in ambient temps of 90F. However, your results may vary :)
     
  16. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    #16 Rapalyea, Jun 13, 2015

    The 1986 water pump has a more robust bearing and seal. However, a decent rebuild effort on your part would be satisfying. I suspect the culprit, given the recent coolant change, was an air bubble. These complicated coolant system require a deft touch to bleed.
     
  17. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    #17 Rapalyea, Jun 13, 2015

    Back in the old days on cold days in Ohio [Ohio has some seriously cold days unlike the Georgia Mountains where I now live] cats would, from time to time, snuggle up in the engine compartments for comfort. Next morning start up flying fur was the least of it.
     
  18. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    #18 308mon, Jun 14, 2015
    New pump installed during this past week. Touch wood all is looking good.

    No air bubbles were harmed during the installation! Looking at the failed pump it was "past due" on the front seal and I should have been more observant of the pre-failure warning signs now that I think of it. Will re-build the original at my leisure.
     

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