hi everyone, first post in the f1 section. I am currently in talk with a sponsor in China for an endeavor. I literally didn't sleep for the last few nights and came up with a written plan. It wasn't finished but here it is for the first few sections. I will personally travel from Beijing to UK's motor valley to talk to Judd and Cosworth before summer time. By then I'd beef up this plan with more detailed info. Do you have any recommendations, words, or anything? any input would be greatly appreciated, even harsh criticism! call me naive My first language is NOT english, so i might express myself in an awkward way or even outright wrong. Correct my english if you could! ===========starts below============== Project object: With US $3 million, to construct/manufacture/assemble a sustainably drivable non-competition formula one car in China with performances achieving at least 50% of its race-ready counterpart and to run it for 15,000 kilometers. For readers accustomed to the imperial system, this is roughly 9323 miles. (i'll define what's 50% later) General review and idea: First I need to define ‘formula one car’ in this context. For budget reasons, the appearance/structure/aerodynamics elements of the car do not need to strictly confirm to f1 rules of any year but has to be deemed immediately by a layman as a modern f1 car upon first encounter. I understand that layman couldn’t tell an F1 car from an Indy car, but we are doing F1 here, period. To this end, the ‘looks’ of post-1990 real f1 car should be mimicked. This is because the widespread adoption of paddle shifter around this period, which is considered modern. Nonetheless, the possibility of a mixture of characteristics from different period is not to be excluded. Mechanically, the car should at least have a modern F1/ex-F1/F1-like high-revving engine and its matching drive-train elements that could withstand a certain degree of stress. Purchase of a fully functioning/turnkey retired f1 car from United Kingdom is not considered unless the drive-train/control parts can be easily sourced. This is because of its prohibitive maintenance cost associated with these one-off engines/transaxles/controls/etc. For one thing, the mechanical parameters of the engine from these cars are not usually publicly available thus making rebuild a cost-ineffective one. Upon completing the project, the ‘F1 car’ can serve several purposes including my own enjoyment and business-related ventures in China, where there’s no running F1 car as far as I know (except the Shanghai Grand Prix, of course). Please be advised the plan laid out below is a grossly simplified one because everybody who’s ever get their hands dirty would know, that, in the course of the actions/plans listed below, unexpected thing would happen and human intelligence and compromises would be paramount to resolve issues. And you guessed, that’s where I fit in. This project would require me and a hired crew of 5-10 people. 1. Chassis and other body parts including aerodynamics: The monocoque and suspension parts should be similar or ideally identical to a real f1 car in shape. Since we are not going to use the car in a competitive environment, the strength and other requirements by the FIA can be alleviated to such level as to keep the costs in bay. After all, the bottom line is that the monocoque and its auxiliary elements such as the stressed suspension parts can sustain not-so-hard accelerations/decelerations/cornering for years barring the possibility of crash. In pursuit of this goal, I’ll try to make the looks as identical as possible to a certain car in a real f1 race season. How to achieve: There are 2 ways I can achieve this goal: • I can import a retired f1 roller (i.e. no engine and/or even no transaxle), which is available in moderate numbers from auctions and private sellers in the UK. • I can custom make it domestically. I am currently talking to北京永盛玻璃钢制品有限公司 and 泰安市宏发碳纤维制品厂 (I am open for mouth-of-words and recommendation, of course). These companies are not dedicated monocoque manufacturers per se but they custom made lots of application for different type of customers and with the right money, they can do what I require. I’ve learned that carbon fiber raw materials are imported by these manufacturers and finalization can be done in-house. If I am going this route, ideally, 3D CAD files of the monocoque and other body parts can be obtained in my trip to UK. In case such 3d CAD files are not obtainable, reverse engineering will be carried out by 3-D scanning of a/the real f1 car body. Thus the only problem left for the monocoque manufacturers is the design of strength and its implementation. In designing/implementing modifications to accommodate the different drive-train installed, the manufacture should have a CAD system. Widely used by F1 teams is the CATIA of Dassault Systemes. Siemens’ PLM software can be an option if it costs considerably less. Yes! Every penny counts! CFD is not relevant, since we are not going to use the car in a real race and tiny tweaks of aerodynamics aren’t as important as that in a real f1 race. We simply need to roughly mimic the rough appearance of a real f1 car and achieve that mentioned 50% performance. How to cut costs: Importing VS fabricating domestically really comes down to cost consciousness. I’ll have more information later when the aforementioned domestic companies provide me with more info about costs. Proprietary software by the aforementioned monocoque manufacturers is actually better if it does its job. A general-purpose CAD software can do, too. After all, we are not racing; we are putting up a show! 2. Engine The engine should be able to rev to at least 11000 rpm while I am aspiring 20000 rpm, depending on budget. I have yet to have detailed information on the curve of rpm-longevity relations. Again, after I return from UK, I’d have more info. The rationale behind this high rev is the need for a screaming sound that is the telltale sign of F1 drawing people’s attention, hence my enjoyment and business opportunities. Keep in mind that current trend of f1 rules for the longevity of engines is on our side. Turbos/KERS are not to be included for better sound, simplicity and cost-cutting. Judd and Cosworth are my candidates. Big engine manufacturers are out of my reach, such as Honda, Renault. If my sponsor can help me get in touch with them, these engine suppliers become options as well. Which engine supplier I’d choose will be decided later down the road after I returned from UK. I’d have more information by then. Domestically manufactured engine? Yes! Technically, that is an option, too. But I personally think that this is out of reach for my level or expertise/intelligence. I am going to need a huge stroke of luck for some Chinese car manufacturer to hit on me and put a green light on such a huge project. The reason for choosing a cosworth/judd/etc engine is that these companies are ex-F1 engine supplier or potentially will return as one, so they know their game. For example, the Cosworth CA engine is conforming to the f1 rules of 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 with a max rev of 18000 rpm. The rev can be higher if the limiter was removed but with a budget in mind I might just leave it as is. As per conversation with Cosworth, the CA engine can be purchased without the KERS. Rebuilding these engines could be less of a headache than one-off engines that actually raced for the F1 championship. How to achieve: Importing complete engine with all its accessories from the manufacture. How to cut costs: This is the single most important part of the F1 car and there’s no way to cut costs or I am willing to. 3. Transaxle As per conversation with the engine suppliers, they can provide leads or even source the matching drain-train related parts for me, such as those from Xtrac, Hewland and Magneti Marelli transaxles and their control modules. They can also make the modification to the drive-train to fit the chassis for the right amount of money if I choose to buy a retired F1 roller in UK. But I’d think modifications made to the chassis to fit the drive-train are even easier/cheaper. I’ll have more info later. How to achieve: Importing complete transaxle with all its accessories from the manufacturer. How to cut costs: Since the torque of f1 engines are within the realm of production vehicles, we can custom made these transaxles domestically, especially considering the cost related to the housing integration with the chassis. 4. Electronic controls Ideally, I could use those recommended by the engine/transmission supplier, but options like MoTeC are always up for grabs. How to achieve: Go with the manufacture’s recommendation and let them tune it to the right parameters we command while balancing longevity and performance. How to cut costs: We are NOT transmitting hundreds of sensor data to a remote computer for a better lap time so lots of these money could be saved. Indeed, that’s the very reason we are using an aftermarket engine management ECU!
Very interesting proposal, wishing you luck. Two pieces of advice; 1- the higher reving the motor the more expensive and more frequently it will require full rebuild. 2- suspension pieces that match shape of F1 are fine, the cost is in the weight or advanced material use. You can use steel brakes, suspension and a 10k revving motor and get 50% of F1, but once you start getting past 75% the incremental improvement becomes very expensive. Good luck and keep us updated!
Lotus have already made this exact car in the Lotus T125: Lotus Type 125 | Lotus Cars (Not really sure whatever became of them though!)
Look at a sports car engine - easily available & long life - stick it into a cheap old pre-turbo F1 chassis eg HRT/Marussia or any of the current hard-up teams eg http://racecarsdirect.com/listing/57335/renault_f1_team_r30_ex_robert_kubica_2010.html or for that matter a GP2 chassis will look the part and be just as fast
there are plenty of similar ex-race cars out there for sale, not to mention several companies build cars like this. I raced formula mazda and formula BMW, also worked with an INDY car team, open wheel race cars need constant attention, being able to run something like this for 15k kilometers is going to be very very hard. these are cars that drivers drive at the limit 100% of the time (or at least try to) you would be lucky to get 1K kilometers or of major components like engine and gear box. what is the purpose of this car? are you wanting to run this in a particular racing series, or just use it for track days?
I don't see any way of getting 15k km out of this. For f1 level performance you'll need rebuild at least every 2k km. buying a gp2 or World Series Renault car will serve your needs with lots of money left for parts. Or go to a racing team in china and source a formula Renault 2.0 and put in a bigger motor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
these info are exactly what i needed. looks like i might be better off to buy just from Lotus, but are they going to sell me?
would you provide some leads on where I can contact these company such as those who build race cars and ex-race car sellers. really appreciate it about purpose, ah!!! Is it too dumb to say I don't know very clearly yet?