some F1 observations

Discussion in '360/430' started by 24000rpm, Jan 14, 2018.

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  1. 24000rpm

    24000rpm Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2012
    1,941
    Asia and the U.S.
    first, I need to state one fact : F1 light on does NOT necessarily mean the system pressure is low, it means it is very very likely the pressure is low. Today, for some misdemeanor of playing with electronics, I have the light on and drive the car as usual with no problem whatsoever. Please also note that this is a rare occurrence, which means in most cases, your system pressure is low when the f1 light is on. My guess: it is a TCU signal that was sent to the dashboard and sometimes the signal just went wrong

    On to the observation I have today.

    Background: Challenge Stradale euro version. Galileo scantool (mini leonardo). My CS has never been able to complete a full self learn cycle on the galileo, which promps this thread:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-self-learn-glitch.564709/

    Now, in that thread, from all helpful people, I was able to narrow it down to my pressure sensor as the culprit.
    Note that I also had a flashing "3" (as in 3rd gear) problem on the instrument panel.

    So, instead of replacing a possible faulty sensor with messy procedures, I decided to test the sensor in-situ first by replacing the CS TCU with an early 360 TCU that I happen to have as a spare. This will also give me some insight about the flashing 3rd gear indicator.

    The observation:
    I replaced my CS's stock CS tcu with a MY02 TCU. I didn't bother to do anything like copy close clutch position or any of that because I am only interested in the self-learn function (The pressure sensor, for that matter).

    And voila, everything good, the self-learn cycle completed, just like in my Modena. This probably means my pressure sensor isn't bad. Or is it?

    So I am going to write a letter to Accini to tell them that your software got a problem. And the problem is that it failed to let on the f1 pump when needed. ( in the MY02 TCU the pump is on 90% of the whole time while in self-learn. in CS tcu the pump is on maybe 30% of the time, details please see this thread of mine: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/solution-for-f1-pump-overheating-problem-in-ferrari-360.291200/page-2#post-144488259 scroll down to 24000rpm's post)

    Now, to the flashing "3" problem on the instrument panel. The original observation on my CS with CS TCU is that on the CS, the flashing "3" will only occur when the PIS is set sufficiently loose. Tightening it up (up to the point that it creeps a little when car is stopped) and the flashing goes away, or at least mitigated a little.

    Now, with the early TCU installed on my CS, the 3rd gear flashing indicator never occurred, no matter what PIS I set, 4,6, 4.8, 5.1 (4.7 is roughly the "should-be" PIS) .

    NOW THE PROBLEM. As I proceed to try on adjusting the PIS to 5.3 to duplicate the flashing 3rd gear indicator, the self-learn abruptly stopped at around 3-4 gear change. Tried 3 times, all stopped at 3-4 gear change. Immediately after abortion, the f1 light is on and to my surprise, even if I turn of the car and turn the key to ACC , the f1 light is still on. Usually, you can't start the car with f1 light on ,but in my case, the car started. Not just started , it drives like a champ, as usually, not a single sign of problem except that the gear change speed is in line with what the TCU is supposed to fetch(I've driven numerous 360s with various TCUs). Hence the beginning of the post.

    On a side note, my early TCU does NOT have the parameter for "actuator centering delta" (or similar wording) , while my CS TCU does. In my CS TCU, before the swap , the delta is -4 and sometimes as far as -26. According to FSM , this is out of the supposed range of -3 to 3.

    I am not sure what , or how I would draw any conclusion from these observations. Just a share of information.

    Thank you for reading such a long and tedious, verbose post.
     
  2. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,099
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    The F1 light is a system failure light - essentially to let the driver know that a DTC has been logged.

    There are various pump protection strategies that evolved over the years, so I think you have just encountered a software difference and reaction to a low pressure event.

    In my experience (F430) of multiple TCU revisions and self-learns, the pump only primes when pressure drops.

    If you suspect the pressure sensor then I would not start questioning the software until it has been replaced.
     
  3. 24000rpm

    24000rpm Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2012
    1,941
    Asia and the U.S.
    There is no DTC in my case.
    The software has 4 choices when I was getting into the TCU unit.
    Each choice correspond to a TCU or TCUs. , so essentially there are 4 softwares in Galileo(leonardo) for the each period of 360.
    The 3 choices are good, and only this CS choice is bad.



     
  4. 24000rpm

    24000rpm Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2012
    1,941
    Asia and the U.S.
    update:
    a few hours later, I switch back to my original CS TCU.
    for the first time in my life, I was able to do a complete self-learn without any glitch. Please note that I did not do anything to the car except to swap out a TCU and swap back.

    Some info that should be released on original post but slipped my mind: when entering the TCU, the scantool gave you 4 choices, corresponding to 4 period of TCUs. There's one dedicated option for CS.
     
  5. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3
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    Jul 2, 2013
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    Can you list the 4 or 5 TCU variations you see on the Gali, and how they map to year/models ?
     
  6. 24000rpm

    24000rpm Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2012
    1,941
    Asia and the U.S.
    i'll take a picture, in a few hours

     
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  8. 24000rpm

    24000rpm Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2012
    1,941
    Asia and the U.S.
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    They are the TCU versions fitted to the 360, ordered by age. From memory the first one is actually a 200.

    There is a large degree of compatibility between them but choosing the wrong version will provide some incorrect readings and unexpected behaviour with diagnostic actions.
     
  10. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3
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    So how to match them up to production year or model ( eg CS )
     
  11. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

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    You will need to look at the label on the TCU.
     
  12. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
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    Mike M
    The 201, 231 are the TCU hardware versions.
    176556 was the first based on hardware CFC201.1
    The later CS TCU’s use a CFC231 hardware as does the early 430 one.
    Voicey’s blog page lists the software versions but not when they changed nor the hardware versions.

    As Mark says you need to check the label as there were 9 versions over the 5 year production run finishing with s/w 211023.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3
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    Jul 2, 2013
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    So if you have say one of the earlier h/w, but the CS software flashed into it.

    You would use which diagnostic option shown above...
    a) 201.1
    or
    b) 231
     
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  15. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
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    Mike M
    The connection should be h/w specific.
    If the hardware is 201 then connect through that option.
    If that doesn’t work then try 231 as I can’t see it doing any harm*
    *disclaimer: don’t blame me if it does ;)

    I have xdiag and connect as a 231 430 as 231 h/w isn’t on the 360 gearbox menu.
    When it connects, it comes up with the CS software version 196986.

    I think the CS software runs on both 231 and late 201 h/w but maybe it is compiled differently. Eric would be your man to answer that.
     

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