Some FF stats from Today's Dealer Training

I got beaten up when I said that !

 

It's quite the bug. Hope you get well soon.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140296884&postcount=1039

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140298053&postcount=115

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140298158&postcount=1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140307930&postcount=17

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140316168&postcount=29

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140324513&postcount=125

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140320459&postcount=44

Certainly no shortage of self-confidence!

 

In his defense Joe these have stopped ever since my post and have stayed in his thread which is completely fine

 

cool a "real dog goes in there too... I love that car even more now!

Now that actually is fantastic. My dog hardly goes in my Maranello, so i'm left to the little english roadster if i want to take him with...
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So I guess you consider the Bentley Continental GT useless? It also has 4WD, 2 doors, 600 BHP or so and sells extremely well

Don't you think it's possible Ferrari is going after Bentley's customers?

 

IT will be normal glass not panoramic, 80% dark...and will have some innovative property.

 

hmm ... does Ferrari lease?

Anyway

FF 325 - 400

Bentley 140 - 200

Pan Am 100 - 150 4 door

Aston 125 - 175

I am not knockin the FF ... it's the design around the backseat I dislike.

The backseat is semi useless on any GT 2 plus 2

 

I disagree, kids love it just fine. A 2+2 is a very fitting car for the young businessman with kids taking his family on a weekend or short holiday, with the FF especially if that holiday includes snowy Alps. It's a new niche for Ferrari, and also a logical step up for families that have grown out of their 612.
And yes there will be people who will just use their FF in snow and salt. People who can afford to pay a big premium to buy an FF over a Continental GT (very different car btw), Aston or Panamera will likely not worry too much about the extra depreciation that might cause.

The argument you made about shoving clients in the back does not hold - for starters, it's not good business to bring a Ferrari to a client visit in the first place. Take a Quattroporte if you have to show style. But if you feel you must, this is the best Ferrari yet to fit that bill. Or are you suggesting Ferrari would have made a better decision if they would have taken a pitch at the SUV market?

 

Kids I agree ... which is exactly my point.

Why design the cars rear end around seating adults in the rear.

Good business that is your opinion - I drive the 612 all the time and park right in front.

Thank You for allowing me to clarify and your agreement on needing a 4 door and the semi useless backseat

 

The Bentley that competes with FF is the Supersport and has base price at $280k (convertible over $300K).
It is not a garage queen kept only as a weekend toy but a practical daily driver used by a lot of people I know.
I used a Speed($245k) as daily for over 2 years in Chicago weather,one of my best dd ever...

 

The Speed Super Sport Convertible is probably one of my top five favorite cars.

The dealer here has the SS sitting ... usually at a big discount and most of them are leased.

But if you take a Speed which I believe is fully loaded at 280 - assuming it is fully loaded.

The FF Fully loaded with that stitching and CF I am guessing the FF would be 425 - 450!

This is based on 458's with 225 base - I have seen 325 plus stickers

Again - my statement is why did Ferrari design the back around seating four adults.

That's it!

Just for fun did you lease?

 

The 612 was a failure at it's pricing structure.If the FF comes in at higher level it TOO will fail
I personally think they are going to be more competitive this time round But will still make
it the most expensive car in it's segment by a good margin - IMHO

 

I did not lease the Speed,I did the current S63TT (24mo) and I am already sorry I did (my wife forced me to lease my dd to sort of marry me to it so I don't get rid of it after a few months).
Btw,if you are right in your prediction that a fairly (nothing outreagous) optioned FF is around $400k ,I would not consider it as a potential dd for myself.
There has to be a limit to everything....

 

To prove they could? And perhaps to aim at the people who do need to travel occasionally with three people, did that and it's no fun over larger distances for the person in the back. It does provide a purpose that a 2+2 just doesn't do.

Great, now you're making me jealous and wanting to be in the same business as you!

Hej, stop putting words in my mouth .
I dig the FF, for it's purpose, for it's uniqueness, and despite or perhaps even because it's styling one has to get accustomed to. Despite that there may be cars that do similar funny things with your spine when driving and yes, despite that it's price is out of this world in comparison. So are many fine things such as great wine. For many future owners it will be something like 'do I need it'? No. 'But do I want it?' - absolutely yes.

What am I saying. Judging my luck, like my 456, I probably won't be able to afford or able to sneak one past the Ms. until another 10-15 years or so anyway. On the plus, by that time the minds will likely have been made up about this car. Can't wait

 

Smart lady ...

Ferrari is not exactly kind when it comes to option pricing - which is something that confuses me more than the rear of the FF.

I owned a CL65 and imagine the S63 is pretty close .... talk about torque!

I only bring up the lease thing due to Ferrari wanting to compete with the Bentley they are going to have to get down n dirty on the FF.

 

If the sticker is 275k and roughly 100k added on as options how do you figure 425-450k? As always I agree that a Ferrari is always going to be steep, options or base, but I don't think there is going to be as big of a price gap as originally thought. Will it be more expensive than the competion? Yes, but it also offers a whole lot more in the way of tech, performance, weight (as in massively lighter), and even luggage space. Plus the fun factor I'm sure will be far far greater than any Bentley or Porsche.

 

Ok 375 ... want one

I do not know the list nor do you ... but the test car was 375 and I saw zero carbon bits and a rather plain interior.

No Diamond stitching add another 30k then 15 - 20k minimum for carbon = 420

My dislike is not the price ... geez it's a sick car mechanically and I own a 612 so obviously admire the 2+2.

I do not know your means and you do not know mine.

More expensive is all relative ...

 

Fair enough, I am trusting the $275k as there are a few sources on this forum that are backed up by some pretty credible people, but yes as of now it is still a random number.

As an aside the 375k pound car did include other taxes and what not that the British market will see. Plus in the TG article it doesn't exactly mention it's spec. But I will for the most part agree with your numbers, though the carbon definitely doesn't look as good as the aluminum.

I have always liked the spec of your 612 and love the 612 as well, my favorite Ferrari's are the long nosed 12 cylinder GTs. Means of course have a big deal too

Though in saying expensive I was referring to price. In this way the FF does not appear extravagently more pricey than some of it's rivals

 

Thanks and much appreciated.

I understand where you are coming from ... just keep in mind the 430 Scud guys went koo koo for the 458 - losing 125k in 2 years.

The guy with the 612 is going to have to even swallow more - 150 - 200k over the same time period and as you said a better looking car

Very tough sale - IMO

 

It's true the 612, as the 456 etc previously, always has to swallow a bigger price fall. I'm sure though it's expected (or should be) it's still quite the kick. What will help Ferrari is the new customers to the brand, though it has to be said with cars of this type no manufacturer is safe from these levels of depreciation so it shouldn't be anything out of the ordinary. I don't think that would have too large of an effect on sales, and like you said, means are a big factor.

 

To the previous heated discussion, I think it really has been confirmed that the FF is moving below 599 replacement pricewise. See attached model lineup from Fiat management.

In terms of pricing, I read EUR 260k plus VAT= EUR 312k retail
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I mean this non offensive - do you really think there is a NEW customer at the 300k level?

This is not the California that has a target market and whooped it's arse.

This is a 350 - 400k car with no competition within 100's of thousands.

I bought a Ferrari for it's class stynle the engine / engineering was secondary. There are cars for 1/5 the price of Ferrari that will outperform the 612.

 

I really do think there are customers willing to spend +300k who have never considered Ferrari before and for the reasons you stated. Not to say the 612 isn't a great car as I think it is fabulous, but at the level it was competing only those who really wanted a Ferrari would ever consider it. I think the FF brings a whole lot more to the table than the 612, in pretty much every category, it doesn't need to rely on just being a Ferrari. As well, even though the 612 is viable as a daily Ferrari still has the stigma of being too flimsy for this, why do you think Ferrari mentions it's usability so much? It's not just because it's pushing Ferrari to another level of greatness in GT cars. Even though it probably beats everything else in the market, however, it's higher price is going to hurt it a lot, to be honest it's the only problem I see with it, and that's a shame.

 

ok

 

There must be a market if Ferrari chose to follow this project, I don't think a 60 year old company known for making 2+2 GT cars would be so naive