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Some Questions for a School Project

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by BballBigJ54, Dec 8, 2003.

  1. BballBigJ54

    BballBigJ54 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
    1
    PA
    Full Name:
    Jason
    1)In the 1960's why did Ferrari start putting the
    engine in the rear of the car?

    2)How long did it take to produce a Ferrari in the
    begining years of the company?

    3)About how many Ferraris were produced in on year
    during the first years of the business?

    4)How long does it take to produce a Ferrari now?

    5)How many Ferraris are produced per year now?

    6)What are some technologies that have been added to
    the Ferraris throughout the years?

    7)How has the engine changed throughout the years?
     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    You'd better head to the library, young man!

    I'll answer one question.

    After years of resistance, "Horse ahead of the cart", Enzo was forced to adopt rear engine design by competition from Lotus and other F1 teams of the early 60s. Jim Clark's Indy 500 victory is widely accepted as the turning point on this issue.

    Anyone else want to help this young man with his homework? LOL!
    He was propbably overwhelmed by the response if you Google "Ferrari".
     
  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,540
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    Rob Lay
    Jason emailed me the questions and although I could make some good guesses, most I'll have to reference my book collection. If you could help Jason out on his project, he would appreciate it. I figured the knowledge base at FC could accomplish the task at hand.

    Thanks
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    A brief answer to #7) They are a lot more expensive!
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    No problem man, that's how we all learned!

    Happy Holidays Rob!
     
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  8. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    6)What are some technologies that have been added to
    the Ferraris throughout the years?

    Fuel Injection
    F1 Shifting
    Four and then Five valves per cylinder on some models
    A/C :D
    ABS brakes
    Electronic ignition
    Carbon fiber parts
    Power steering
     
  9. noahlh

    noahlh Formula 3

    Aug 28, 2003
    2,225
    NYC, NY
    Full Name:
    Noah
    4 and 5:

    I _think_ (someone may need to double-check my numbers), that the latest worldwide production numbers are something like:

    Enzo: 349
    575: 800
    456: 290
    360: 3150

    As far as how long it takes to produce them, I'm not sure, but I can estimate how many they make a day as follows: The factory is open 11 months of the year (closed in August), minus weekends, assuming 1/2 day on Friday, and assuming a smattering of other off-days, I'd say there are around 300 production days a year, so they make about 15 cars / day.

    If anyone has corrections to any of these figures, do shout 'em out.

    nlh
     
  10. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    Apr 3, 2001
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    do a search for victorybydesign or go to victorybydesign.com and order the ferrari dvd for $25. it might be informative and fascinating for your project. otherwise, there is a download link somewhere that is in real media format and well worth the download. while it doesn't say why they specifically put the motor aft of the driver, it hints that that's the next progression in making their race cars faster. the lamborghini muira was the first road car to put the motor in the back, but I cannot recall the timeline as to when the ferraris had their race cars with a mid engine layout vs. the front engine. you'll get more details with the video. well worth the watch.

    also, the vid will explain #6 a bit when it comes to a monocoque chassis and brakes. Ferrari had always been the last to try out the latest technology into their race cars. things have certainly changed since then.
     
  11. Jordan Ross

    Jordan Ross Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    591
    Austin
    Why did Ferrari start putting engines in the mid position?

    For the road cars you can partialy blame Lamborghini with their Miura and Countach. The Miura was the first (that I know of) street car with the engine behind the passenger compartment, and at the time ferrari was making the Daytona as their flagship, which had a front mounted 12.
    Once Ferrari realized that it could regain some sales from Lamborghini by putting a 12 behind the driver, it built the Berlinetta Boxer. it had a racing derived Flat-12 and IMO one of the best bodies ever put on a car.

    By that time Lamborghini was making the Countach and later on Lotus the Esprit, so Ferrari made the TR series.

    Since the F512M Ferrari has not made a Mid-12 (excluding the limited production F50 and Enzo)

    So Ferrari made a mid egine car to get sales and also to race, but that aspect has been covered above.
     
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  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The 250P was the first rear engine prototype, which was after the F1 cars. Then Enzo tried to convince FIA that the 250LM was a legitimate evolotion of the already homogulated GTO, which was front engined!
    When they turned hime down he withdrew the factory cars. The 250LM ran that year as white/blue NART entry.
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,672
    I thought the deTomaso Mangusta came before the Muira.

    The reason that all real racing cars have the engine in the middle are:
    A) reduced polar moment
    B) compact packaging
    C) weight

    A barbel has high polar moment. The same shaft with the weight in the center has much lower polar moment. Polar moment indicates how easily an object can be taken from rest and begun spinning around the center of gravity. A vehicle with large polar moment takes large forces from the tires to begin turining, then more forces to hold a steady turn, then more forces to start leaving the turn, and finally even more to quit turning. All these forces cause drag and heat the tires. A car with lower polar moment can be steered into a turn faster and steered out of a turn faster. They can also spin faster, so the polar moment of modern mid-engined cars is a careful balance between the polar moment achievabel, and the reaction time of the driver. If the car is faster than the driver (in rotation initiation) it will be hard to drive and easy to spin. The first mid engined race cars (and road cars) had (at best) ricky handling, but the lowe rpolar moment and weight advantages gave them an instant advantage that the front engined cars could not match. Modern mid-engined cars have a delicate balance that makes them easier to drive at the limits of traction and in beautiful 4 wheel drifts.

    A mid-engined car can have a compact and robust driveline because the drive shaft is not required, not ar things like torque tubes and the like. The chassis does not need to be stiff enough to handle the TQing of the motor to the rear suspension, and thereby can be lighter. These advantages also exist in rear engined cars (ala Porsche).
     
  15. trkevin

    trkevin Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    894
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    K. Blommaert
    Reply to 5)

    In 2002 Ferrari SpA sold 4236 Ferraris.

    I also know that they will produce 399 Enzos, and not 349 like told above.

    And in the first half year of 2003 they delivered 86 enzos. (Found that somewhere in the financial result of Ferrari of the first half year of 2003).

    Hope this is a reply to your question.
     
  16. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I believe it was 196 SP 0790. Others?
     
  17. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
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    Ferrari has never made a rear engine car that I'm aware of. They are MID engined (forward of the rear axle). Porsche 911's are rear engined. There were a few race cars in the early 60's that were mid engined; the Miura and some French car (Matra?) came first as production cars. The Lotus Europa was the first mid engined car that competed with the Corvette in price; he S1 came out in 1969.
     
  18. Jordan Ross

    Jordan Ross Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    591
    Austin
    I had thought that the mangusta began proguction in late 1969 (august is my best guess) ant the miura in may.
    still, the Mangusta, Miura, and to a much lesser extent the ford GT40 road car, of which im not sure how many made it to the streets.

    The decision for the road cars switching to Mid engines was probably to keep Ferrari as the pinacle manufacturer in both image and performance.
    The driving dynamics, for an abundance of reasons, just cannot match those of a mid engined car.
     

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