Something smells fishy about this

yeah that is pretty f-ed up.... What can I say...... dealers.... really makes you want to bid on any car offered by any dealer doesn't it?

 

Yup...looks a bit suspicious. I like the questions asked by "bidders" which also reek of dealer.

 

The car is a EURO which they are trying to deny. I just sent them a new question pointing out that the 4th digit "W" denotes a 328 for the Euro market

 

They are lying. Someone asked if this was a Grey Market car and they said in big letters that is was not. But it is obviously European .. Euro mirrors, Euro parking lights, Euro ID plates. What's with that?

 

Man, there are a lot of sharks in the deep end...

 

I don't think they are trying to deny it is/was a Euro car. It seems it was a Euro car imported into the U.S. brand new and then modifed to meet DOT and EPA regs. My understanding of the term gray market (relating to a car) is one that is brought into the U.S. without having been modified to meet EPA and DOT regs. (brought in illegally). If this car has the DOT and EPA release paperwork it is a properly modified originally Euro version that now meets U.S. requirements.

The DOT allowed 308/328's in with the Euro mirrors (basically they made an exception) and they probably got around the clear parking lights on the front by inserting orange bulbs behind the lenses. The turn signal portion is still orange on the Euro car, albeit smaller, so that's good to go. Or the full length U.S. spec. orange turn signal lens was put on by the company doing the modification and then the old lenses were re-installed at a later date by the importer, first owner etc.

Having said all that, I agree, that maybe the dealer was doing the bidding. Other than that I think what they're saying is legit.

 

At least report it to ebay. Ebay won't care much about that, but hey probably filed a non-paying bidder complaint against themselves to get out of the fees and ebay will care about that.

 

No, a grey market car is any car built for another market then imported into the US and modified to meet US regulations. They normally come with copies of all the paperwork showing they are in the country legally.

 

I have a 86 EURO 328 and have EPA and DOT paperwork it was imported in 86. They stated in response to a previous question it did not need EPA or DOT paperwork which it does.

 

Correct

 

Do you mean they told you in a private email it did not need EPA or DOT paperwork? Because they did not say that in the ebay ad.

By the way, does your Euro modified car have the 3rd brakelight? It looks like that one does not have one.

And did anyone notice the black painted front grille?

 

There was a Mondial I was intersted in eBay and I called the seller. It was a dealer. They use eBay as cheap advertising, not for selling. For only $40 they get a lot of attention to their show room and sell other vehicles. This particular dealer started off low and had a high reserve.

What I don't understand is why this particular seller is not advertising their dealership, like with pictures of the vehicle in front of their show room with the phone numbers. I agree with all of you, there is something strange here. Maybe they messed up with the reserve and bought it back? I am not sure how eBay works if the reserve was set too low.

 

I would get e-bay all over them this is not right

 

No I read their answer to the questions posted on the ad. No mine does not have the third brake light. Also look closely at the top of the rear bumper the US versions had a vent there for the heat of the cat. Also note how they "dance" around the Major service question. Yes I did notice the black grill and also note the EURO REAR RED FOG Lights



Questions from other members
Q: Do you have the EPA and DOT releases, do you know if the odo is reading in kilometers or miles?
Answered on Feb-10-08
A: This vehicle was sold new in the united states. The mileage is in Miles Not kilometers. THIS IS NOT A GRAY MARKET CAR.



Q: Do you know when the last major engine service was done and what it consisted of?
Answered on Feb-09-08
A: As stated in the description , the vehicle was serviced locally at the ferrari dealer. The last SVC was done at 46,207. It consisted of new cv boots, a...more

 

Yes, right you are about the definition of gray market.

They probably imported it in '86 and congress did not revise the law to allow only RI's to mod. the cars until 1988. This could explain why it appears to be not fully converted:


USDOT/NHTSA

MAIL CODE: NSA-3202

400 7TH ST SW, Room 6115

WASHINGTON DC 20590

BACKGROUND INFORMATION FOR REGISTERED IMPORTER (RI) PROGRAM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


During the mid-1980s gray market vehicles were being imported into the U.S. from Europe by the thousands. The law for importing a vehicle at that time permitted anyone to import a gray market vehicle and to have the vehicle brought into compliance with the applicable safety requirements by any person capable of making the modifications. Due to a lack of control over the compliance work being performed, our office discovered that this work often was being done improperly or not at all. Therefore, Congress revised the law in 1988 to establish a system whereby only RIs could perform the modifications within the guidelines stated in Part 592 of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). These requirements are not currently being met by some RIs. After receipt of this bulletin, all requirements must be met.

NO SUBCONTRACTING


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the course of the rulemaking to establish Part 592, the agency proposed that the RI application contain a statement of whether the RI would modify the vehicles for which it furnishes certificates of conformity, and if not, to provide the names and addresses of all agents who would be the actual modifiers.
The concept that an RI could delegate actual conformance work was opposed by Mercedes-Benz and The Dealer Action Association (TDAA). Both commenters argued that this did not fulfill the statutory purpose of increased accountability for conversion, and cited statements from the Congressional Record in support of their position. In Mercedes' opinion, NHTSA would open an area of potential dispute when the object of the 1988 Act was to clarify NHTSA's jurisdiction. Mercedes contended that conformance operations must be carried out by RIs, their employees, or subsidiaries, because the legal line between an "agent" and an "independent contractor" is not always clear, raising the possibility that an RI might structure a relationship to avoid acts of a modifier, including fraud.

NHTSA carefully considered these comments. It believed that the provisions of the 1988 Act were complex enough that regulations should not be adopted that open additional avenues of potential dispute or complications with RIs that might dilute the responsibility imposed by the 1988 Act, and which might result in less than full achievement of the intent of Congress when these approaches have not been specifically directed by Congress. Therefore, it agreed with the comments of Mercedes and TDAA, and did not adopt those aspects of the proposal that countenanced delegation of conformance responsibilities to an agent. A RI must be capable of bringing vehicles into compliance and this means no work can be contracted out. This is a matter of public record, and contained in the preamble adopting Part 592 (Sept. 29, 1989). All RIs are being notified of this requirement which was explained in the preamble. Subsequent to receiving this letter, if modification work is contracted out, the RI may have its registration revoked.

 

Not trying to argue with you but I do not see anywhere in the ad where they wrote that the car does not need DOT or EPA paperwork. It appears that they incorrectly stated "THIS IS NOT A GRAY MARKET CAR."

Yes, I noticed the rear grille with foglights. It's obviously a Euro grille (non-Swiss market). I doubt if the EPA or DOT would have anything to say about the lack of a cut-out in the bumper. I think the cut-out is helpful but I seriously doubt it's significant enough to cause overheating. Their main interest is bumper strenghtening/shock absorber install. If the rear foglights were not legal at the time in the U.S. they could easily have removed the bulbs or fuse(s) to comply.

 

For those that do not speak acronym. RI is a Registered Importer. They should also have a Customs entry number with the paperwork. I think it is listed on my DOT paperwork but I would have to go check.

 

"RI" is explained just below "Washington DC" on the address at the start of my cut and paste.

(BACKGROUND INFORMATION FOR REGISTERED IMPORTER (RI) PROGRAM)

 

You are correct. I didn't see it there. I speak acronym so I just went to the body of the post. I was looking for it in there similar to where they explaind CFR.

One other thing to point out. The car has in addition to the US side turn signal lenses it has the Euro "button" turn signals on the front fenders.

 

It really is stupid for a seller to do business this way pay the extra for the reserve auction if it doesnt make it oh well, What they end up doing is paying ebay more for the sold item fees. becuase if they did buy it themselves it is no different than at any other real auction, all you do it pay the auction fees and you get to keep your car happens all the time at "no reserve" auctions