Something to think about

I hope the father and son get better soon. And despite what the police thinks, I don't think that AM is a complete write-off.

Cars do have come a long way. There are amateur movies on Youtube of the Nürburgring in the sixties an even seventies where tourists in their cars and on their bikes have accidents that would not happen today with modern suspensions and so on.

When I drove s/n 0105 for 300kms including in the pouring rain, I was extra cautious to keep sufficient distance to other cars, especially when braking. I do have to say that other road users were appearently aware of the old age of the Ghia and they gave me ample room (and a lot of thumbs up! )

 

As I like to drive my 330 GTC, and my 12 year old son loves to ride with me, I think about this a lot and try to find low traffic roads. No crumple zones, modest brakes, original glass, poor headlights, seatbacks without whiplash protection, lap belts only, hard surfaces everywhere - makes me extra cautious....

 

Wasn't there a family (or members of a family) killed in the crash of a Duesenberg a few years ago as they were returning from a car show? Car crumbled on impact, and there was mention of its wood body frame (not chassis) not being as strong (no surprise) as a modern car. Very sad, and takes into account all the points above. Frank

 

When I was young and dumb, I drove as a daily driver my 246 Dino Gt for 2 years. And, well.... I was usually pushing it more than I should.

Then one day I realized that the steering column was a straight shot to my chest. The Dino's steering column has no crash protection at all. I drove a little differently after that.

Classic cars are fun to drive. We will never see them again and there are things that you could do then that you will never be able to do again. That's what's makes them interesting.

But you have to remember these are not modern cars and without modern safety equipment or structures.

Jim's post is an excellent one. We need to remember -- have fun but drive safe!

 

My wife once walked around my freshly-restored MGA 1600, declined a ride, and said "at least it will be a quick death."

 

Hmm, maybe I should re-think the 2CV I was planning on buying for the rest of the summer to tool around in.

As far as the Aston incident, I wonder if the 4 year old was in any sort of child car seat.

 

Excellent reminder that one has to be aware of what you are driving... since I normally drive antique cars, whenever I get in a modern car the first stop usually sends my handbag crashing to the floor and I'm a mile short of the white line!

 

Hi,

Ahhh, steering columns. I drove my first car always like I thought it should be driven. Lap belts for four, solid steering column, original wheels but with new 185VR15 tires (Michelin XVS or Dunlop SP41) 16 years 66.000km's and several times over the Alps. As it was my first car and it took me almost two years to put together it was precious, but even more so were the passengers: my wife and two daughters. Yet we did a few passes, incl, Grand St. Bernhard, and 220km/h on longer stretches (according to GPS) in Germany. But only traffic permitting, you always have to watch out and rememeber that other people do not know about your old car's abilities or they might not see you at all. Before that car (a Series 1 4.2L E-type 2+2 in Opalescent Dark Green) I had been riding a small MC as DD and also around Europe both alone and later with my wife on our honeymoon (six weeks, incl. Lech a.A, Como, Budapest, Prague etc.)

But you really need to be aware, then again that was what I liked in particular about the bike, and also what I like when driving the comfy 456 GT, you really become engaged in driving, you feel the machine and what's going on. Unlike in most modern cars.

The Brits call the horn button I have on the steering column of my Jaguar MKV DHC "the spearhead". that same "design" was used on the XK120 and large MKVII Saloon until ca. 1953 and when you picture that it is connected to a very big and heavy steel tube that goes all the way to the front axle you can be sure that in case of a frontal crash the driver would not suffer for long! and those cars were raced on track, gravel, snow and ice!!!

So that car does not have any belts either, the body is mostly made of beech, I don't think I would fit any belts if I would be lucky enough to ever get my hands on a 166 Barchetta or something like that.

Drive it like you stole it! (that's a motto of a friend of mine)

Cheers,

Pekka T.
Fin.

 

Last year, a minivan stopped suddenly in the middle of a 2 lane highway to turn left. I had to get on the brakes as hard as possible in my 250 GTE. Was surprised just how well the brakes worked, and how quickly the car stopped.
Having said that...... yes these cars don't have the safety features modern cars have and should be driven where they can be enjoyed safely. When I lived in north San Diego county a few years ago, there were no places where one could safely enjoy a spirited drive. You had to go waaaaay out of town to get away from the idiots that congest most roads in the area. Over here in northern Arizona, it's pretty wide open, excluding the occasional minivan that stops in the northbound lane of a 2 lane highway to turn left.

 

Perceptive woman!

 

I'm not sure when "safety glass" came into being but in older cars from the 50's, just a rock can create a tragedy.

We are so used to things being safe today that we forget what things used to be like. Drum brakes for example overheat and lose power. They also have a problem in the wet. If not properly adjusted, in hard braking they can pull hard to the right or left.

Do we think about that when driving an older car? I bet most of us don't.

The other problem is with cars that long ago where jerry rigged, modified, or had corners cut. 30 years ago some of these cars were just old cars that people didn't care about. If you think any old car you buy in an auction is "perfect" because it has perfect paint, you might be unpleasantly surprised in an emergency situation.

 

You make an excellent point- well worth remembering.

 

Great post, Jim
As many people know, my GTC (now well over 180,000 miles) is my daily driver.
It's truly not the most comfortable car to drive, especially for in-town driving.
The AC is good, not great.
The ride is harsh.
That being said, I can tolerate those issues but my real concern is the lack of head restraint/whiplash protection. The seat backs are extremely low and not conducive to the installation of headrests.
I've recently purchased a set of later model FIAT seats which, to my surprise, are easy to fit and look quite good. They are also much more comfortable than the GTC seats.
Regarding other crash/impact protection, I guess there's no a lot that can be done.

As far as handling goes, I've had a few slightly scary incidents but in all cases, the handling and braking were adequate to keep me out of trouble.

The watchword should really be defensive driving. Here in South Carolina, the drivers seem to be somewhat oblivious to what's going on - probably true in other states.

Anyhow, I'll keep driving it with my head on a swivel.

Hoping you all enjoy driving your vintage cars and being careful while doing so!

Bob Z.

 

This car is a mix between bricolage and genius. A fantastic car for short deplacement.
Today I regret mine, it was my first car. I will remember it always.


Driving an old car is always by pleasure, don t try to do speed limit, or change it by a modern.
There s always something to do, something to repare. Old cars get humidity, sometimes it s nessesary
to use an umbrella when it rains. Call it: car with charm.

If everything goes well, it will be boring.

 

This thread and these comments are very interesting and appropriate for those who have the opportunity and for those who enjoy driving older vehicles.

I think we generally "assume the risk" when driving vintage vehicles, knowing the inherent limitations of the design and characteristics of vehicles. The awareness of the those limitations is obviously very important.

However, we should consider that the passengers in our vehicle may not appreciate or understand those limitations like we do, and other people using the roads have not consented to assume the risk, for our driving interests and enjoyment.

Regardless of my best intentions, sometimes I do really dumb things while driving, some times intentional and some times not intentional. Either way, the negative consequences can be significant for ourselves, our passengers, and other drivers on the road.

I have found that the results of my youthful indiscretions (showing off) are usually inversely proportional to my enthusiasm and driving ability.

It is also a good reminder to NEVER DRINK AND DRIVE. Intentionally try to reduce driving distractions and to consciously engage in enthusiastic driving in appropriate places and circumstances.

Have a terrific day driving your vintage car,

deeprivergarage
Jerry

 

Bob - I'm intrigued! Which model seats did you fit? Did you also convert to 3-point belts with tensioners? I may be interested in doing something similar (as long as it is reversible) with my 330 GTC. The biggest thing that concerns me is also the low seatbacks - they barely hit my shoulder blades - and I'm only 5'6"! Thanks-Jim

 

My first car as a 15 year old purchased for $800 was a theft-recovery '64 XKE coupe. Among the many missing parts I had to source was the steering column and wheel. I found one in the local Pennysaver and drove to see it. The column was in perfect condition: the knurled collar that adjusted length, the universal joints, everything... except the steering wheel. That once lovely aluminum and wood wheel was bent into a mushroom shape, and the splintered wood was still stained with the driver's blood. Quite a lesson for a rabid car nut kid who didn't have a drivers license yet, and images I retain vividly forty years later each time I drive.

 

Hi,

Yes, images like that inside your brain will hopefully have some positive effects as well.
Like I wrote, they did change the solid tube to a similar tube, that had been cut with diamond shaped perforations all over it, so in a hard collision it would collapse. This was for MY1967 after they did some crash tests with a Series 1 2+2 which can be found on youtube as well.

Our worlds are so different, I believe you that in NJ you could do that back then, even if $800 was a lot of money. Over here even a crashed E-type would have cost way too much for normal people on a payroll. In the early and mid-1990's when I bought my first car, a decent driver cost $28.000-$30.000 USD. Oddly enough a 250 GTE was roughly in the same league and I was tempted to try and buy one in an auction but bought a Series 1 E 2+2 instead, after all I needed a family car. Lap belts, no headrests, etc. makes you want to watch out for everything that moves, or could move.

Cheers,

Pekka T.
Fin.

 

Hi, Jim - sorry for the delay.
I'm pretty sure the seats are from a 1978 FIAT. The guy I bought them from told me that.
Fitting them to the GTC is no problem. I have to drill and tap two holes at the rear of each seat but that's no issue.
I made 1/4 inch thick steel brackets to adapt the FIAT rails to the GTC floor mounts.
There is absolutely no cutting involved so it is, of course, totally reversible.

Regarding seat belts, my car is equipped with Irwin three-point non-retractable belts from the factory (or at least from the US dealer).

As soon as I finish some other projects, I will post some photos of the fitment/installation procedure.

Bob Z.

 

Thanks, Bob!

Awesome. Thank you! My car was Italian delivered and I believe without any seatbelts, though I'm not positive of that. Someone installed nice floor anchors for the lap belts and the car came to me with 3" hook/loop belts. They were old style webbing and clunky mechanisms, so I did replace them with 2" belts with vintage looking modern strapping and airline style buckles, but that's it so far. I'd love to see pictures of your seats and your upper belt anchor. If the upper anchor isn't impossible to add, I could easily switch to three point harnesses. No rush on the picts or follow-up. I'm traveling for 3 weeks so I can't do anything now anyways. Thanks!

 

The car is definitely not written off. $1M will buy a lot of rebuilding.