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Sorry for another MS retirement thread but...

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Jason Crandall, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    I've gotta say this. Feel free to flame me for beating a dead horse.

    I was all for MS retiring. I thought "Wow, he's had such an amazing career, he might as well quit while he's ahead".

    Unfortunately, he raced like a true champion in Brazil and my feelings have changed. The guy is at the top of his game. There is not a better driver out there. I'm not even a huge MS fan. I know many will disagree.

    He went from dead last to 4th place. It was an amazing race for him. He overtook Fisi and then overtook Kimi. It was truly amazing driving. I feel he would have beaten Button and Alonso if he'd had 10 or 15 more laps.

    Was there another driver out there that day who in Michaels' position could have done the same thing???
     
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  3. RonnieF430Spider

    RonnieF430Spider Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2006
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    Unfortunately you are so right! MS is still the best in the game, and furthermore, he has an aura, a mystique about him that none other have.
    Because of all of this, I also wish he would drive one more year, but only for Ferrari. I wish he was "over the hill" so all of us whom have loved to see him race for our marque could honestly say that the time has come for Michael to hang up his driving shoes. But this is not the case. If he were driving for Ferrari next season I would give odds on him winning the drivers championship. But it is not to be, so all we can do is to wish him the best of everything, and be greatful that we had the opportunity to see him race.
     
  4. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    Button went from 14th place on the grid to 3rd in an inferior car...
     
  5. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
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    and? i do believe button's race went more or less to plan, and he wasn't at any point far enough back to be almost lapped....so not quite the same, is it?
     
  6. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

    May 4, 2006
    5,534
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    Kimi could have if he had a working F1 car look at how much faster he is than de la Rosa. McLaren has now degressed so far that they are worse than Honda. I wonder why Honda won this year and McLaren didn't, best of luck Alonso.
     
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  8. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    true, but u need a whole lot of motivation to push if u were in MS's place. first the fuel pressure problems on saturday, then after a good start from 10th, u find a tyre failure.

    crusining back to the pits and need to start all over again, with a heavy car. u need hell lot of a motivation to go that far as MS did.

    and regarding button, he spent the 3rd quarter of the race behind FA's gearbox..
     
  9. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    Good point about Button but still not what MS accomplished!!
     
  10. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    If Button went from 14th to 3rd and Schumi went from 20th to 4th, that leaves 5 drivers more for schumi to pass, which means the Super Aguris, the STR, and maybe one of the Spykers.

    Not exactly the vaunted achievement that some of you are making it out to be. Schumi had the fastest car on the grid, going from 20th to 4th is not that much more an achievement than what Button did.

    You guys need to take off your Schumi-colored glasses. Yes, he had a great drive but so did Button.

    Wake up.
     
  11. stormin

    stormin Karting

    Sep 16, 2005
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    I think it could go down as one of the best "fourth" place finishes ever. At least for die-hard Schumi fans. Given the mechanical difficulties over his last two races, it was still pretty "hooah" for his last race...all things considered!
     
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  13. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    I agree completely, he had a spectacular drive.

    My point is in reference to Jason's comments that no other driver could do the same thing. I think that given the inferiority of Button's car to Schumi's Ferrari, his drive from 14th to 3rd was equally remarkeable.
     
  14. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    this is an accurate statement like it or not. the delta in lap times between the fastest (ferrari) and the backmarkers is HUGE. he likely picked off the first 10 cars in two laps.
     
  15. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    One last point, and to partially reiterate what FerrariPete pointed out, Schumi's run from 20th to 4th is not even close to Senna's drive from 6th to 1st on the opening lap in the rain at Donington 1993.

    Senna passed the five fastest cars on the grid (including Schumacher) in one lap. Schumacher passed a group of backmarkers while driving the fastest car on the grid.

    In Japan 1998, Senna went from 14th to 1st to win the WDC. He had to pass at least three world champions in the process.

    Let's keep Schumacher's drive in perspective, shall we?
     
  16. Snapper323

    Snapper323 Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2005
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    He did everything in that race except work the concession stand! That was truly awesome. I said awhile back, I would like to see him do at least one more season so that a lot of people would have a chance to see him for the first time, and those who have seem him before, one last time.
     
  17. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    So now you are comparing him to Senna and at the same time implying his drive wasn't a big deal. You are comparing MS to Senna!! You are not comparing Button or any other driver to Senna. I think that speaks volumes.

    Button had a great race too. I like Button. But MS would have overtaken him if he had 2 more laps. Who had better lap times?? Button or MS?

    Don't give me this "Well he's got the best car" nonsense. Of course he has the best car. Why do you think he has it?? Maybe because he's the best driver!!!!!

    I'm not an MS fan. My favorite driver would have to be Scott Speed. But he's not a big topic of conversation at this moment in time in F1. I'm being completely objective.
     
  18. Strasse

    Strasse Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2004
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    I too have the same feelings as the OP. That race was like the final page in an incredible book: now that the end chapter is over, that's it. It's done, and we won't feel such a thrill for quite some time, in my opinion.

    The Brazil race was a metaphor for MS's entire career, so in some way, it was apt for this to be Micheal's curtain call: He started with everything to prove, many positions to gain, and the odds against him. Quickly he worked his way up the ranks, and then disaster. But even at seventy seconds behind, at the very back of the pack, he never gave up. That pass attempt on Kimi showed what a racer Michael is. It was fearless.

    Michael may not have won at Brazil, but he no doubt gave an incredible performance, and that's what will be remembered of his final race. Determination and uncanny skill. And in the same way Micheal's career comes to a close. He may not have won this driver's championship, but the fight in the man was astounding.

    Micheal's very final lap was the fastest lap of the race.
     
  19. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    No, you're being a complete idiot.

    Where do I say that Schumacher's drive was no big deal? Did you not see the previous post where I said that Schumacher's drive as spectacular?

    All I am doing is putting his performance in perspective and answering the previous question of who else had such a drive that day. But I guess all this is well over your head.

    Read the posts before you spout off such inane drivel.
     
  20. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    I'm an idiot? That's a very un-called for and immature response.

    Were having a discussion. Grow up!

    I didn't say that you "Said" it was no big deal. I said you "Implied" it. And you did. Go re-read your post.
     
  21. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    What part of "his drive was spectacular" implies that it is no big deal?

    Learn to read, you moron.


     
  22. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I can't believe you're getting this worked up.
     
  23. twk63

    twk63 Formula Junior
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    Sorry, I don't suffer idiots gladly.

    I can put you on ignore if that makes you happy?
     
  24. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    ENOUGH. As the rules say specifically: "No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another user." Do it again and you'll find yourself getting a temporary ban. - MODERATOR MIKE
     
  25. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    Anyways...

    Um...

    MS had a great race in Brazil. Don'tcha think?
     
  26. TRScotty

    TRScotty Formula 3
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    Oct 12, 2006
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    Let's remember that Senna died on May 1, 1994. You must be referring to Schumacher, not Senna in Japan, 1998. BTW, Michael did not win WDC in a Ferrari until 2000
     
  27. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Next time, first watch the race, pay attention, then make comments.

    Free advise. I suggest you take it.
     
  28. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    He is probably referring to Japan 1988.

    But what about Spa 1995?

    Yes, Senna was in a class of his own at Donington but so was Schumacher last sunday.

    Comparing his performance with Button based upon the number of passes is simply ridiculous. It's amazing how much people fail to understand a rather simple game as carracing.
     

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