1) Massa 2) Raikkonen 3) Alonso 4) Kubica 5) Heikki 6) Heidfeld 7) Hamilton Im with Ron on this one...I love this order...
little update : Barcelona's Circuit de Catalunya could this weekend be the scene of the first wet race of the 2008 season. According to weather reports, both qualifying on Saturday and Sunday's Spanish Grand Prix are expected to be affected by drizzle. Wednesday through to Friday, when free practice will take place, is however forecast to be predominantly sunny, with temperatures at around 20⁰C. The final day of the Barcelona test last week, held on the same circuit in the northern municipality of Montmelo, was disrupted by rain.
I hate to bring anyone into the fire with me, so stand near the extinguisher. But wait, your forgot, SATO!!!!! ;}
I seem to recall that Massa almost always follows a win with a disaster. The only bad memeory seems to come from those folks who forget all of Massa's dreadful races and only remember the very few where he did OK.
aah, I was right.. the return of the "I hate Massa" thread... poor guy, can't catch a break... ~shahedc .
Come on, stop making up this stuff. While with Ferrari, he has a pretty good record that will probably get even better this year. Your memory is obviously failing you since you don't remember all of the events of last year. For 2007 Massa had 10 podiums to Kimi's 12, Felipe 3 wins/Kimi 5 wins, Felipe leading Brazil (would have then been 4 wins each) lets Kimi by to win WDC, they both DNF'd twice, Felipe 5 poles/Kimi 4 poles, Felipe 4 race fast laps/Kimi 4 race fast laps, Felipe first race of 2007 gearbox and engine change started from pit lane, Felipe in a strip show 0/Kimi 1 (London). Felipe on track faux pas 1 (tried to pass Hamilton-failed)/Kimi on track faux pas 1 (ran into a barrier at Monaco), one of Felipe's DNF's was the red lite issue in Canada in which Todt took responsibility so I did not count it twice. With the exception of the strip show in 2006 to which I must give an ovation to Raikkonen, as you can see Massa did exceptionally well compared to his more seasoned teammate. He and Kimi are virtually tied for "dreadful" races as you put it, and are rather close on the good results (your word "OK" is such BS). One strip show and Felipe will be right up there with Kimi. Unlike you, a known mysogynocalistwhatever (what was that word you were tossing around in the Danica thread?), I do not have to make up stuff. ;}
What part of "follows up a win with a poor showing" do you not understand?? Andreas already did an analysis showing how Massa fared the race following a win. It is not pretty...but then again neither is Massa's driving... Denying the existence of a fact doesn't make it go away, Ron. You should know that.
Last time I checked, Kimi was WDC and Massa was fourth out of four among the top drivers, some 20-odd points behind the leading three. If you consider that as doing "exceptionally well", then you must have pretty low expectations of Massa. That's OK, so do I...
I did not see Andreas' analysis. I am looking at 2007, the year I compared. Massa, Bahrain #1, next race Spain #1, next race Monaco #3. No major problem after a win so far. Next win Turkey #1, next Italy RETIRED DUE TO SUSPENSION FAILURE, after that Belgium #2. Still nothing I see that can be attributed to being Massa's fault with anything attributed directly to Massa that would warrant a statement that he fails after a win. Actually quite the opposite. Where is this supposed poor showing after a win? Your imagination??? Obviously. If the years prior to Ferrari are included that is absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention a poor way to make a point. Massa is not the seasoned driver that Raikkonen is supposed to be yet his statistics look pretty damn good when compared in 2007. Except when you are wearing opaque glasses. I think the statement you made about denial is more appropriate you. I give you statistics, you give nothing more than myopic crap. I look at a driver's continual improvement, and Massa has done quite well. His problems the first two races this year are less dramatic than Kimi's all of last year and those of the not so golden boy Hamilton the last two races of the season. Kimi made as many mistakes the first race of 2008 as Massa did in the first two. So why does Massa get this kind of flak? Makes no sense to me at all. Nothing you, or anyone has ever said, and I mean nothing, has shown anything to the contrary about Massa. All I see, as in your posts, is just a bunch of jibberish. My response to you and Andreas, if it is as Ted says, your analysis is poor, the above shows completely the opposite of what you are saying, what you are saying is based on myopic predjudices that are really getting pathetic. Ted, and Andreas, you know better than to think you can just make some silly comment and expect me to believe it. I am not one to relinquish to the popular opinion if I know it to be wrong. By now, I know you do not use fact, in the last two posts I made I gave you hard evidence. Denial ain't a river in Egypt and you are quite guilty of denial. Once and for all, Ferrari renewed Massa's contract because they see the same statistics you so conveniently and really amatuerishly overlook. Apparently they know a bit more that me, and a whole lot more than you. I think it is absolutely a waste of time to discuss Massa with you, when you have no interest in the truth. Or fact. So, you wanna talk about your misguilded opinion about Danica now???
Well, *that* lasted a while .... NOT. Guys, you're never gonna change each others' minds. And nothing will keep some guys from bashing Massa in every thread -- even WHEN Massa becomes WDC. And -- just because I can't leave bad enough alone -- my prediction for a wet race: 1) Massa 2) Kubica 3) Kimi (gremlins) 4) Alonso 5) Hamilton 6) Heidfeld 7) Kovaleinan (dry setup/practice, wet race) 8) Webber (I have this feeling that the team still hasn't gotten detail chasing to the point where they can keep gremlins out of the cars. Could be Massa's or Kimi's car, but I have this feeling that there may be a glitch in the system somewhere that could show up this weekend. The listing above is based on it hitting Kimi -- who perhaps copes with such things a little better than Phil does, so far.)
weather.com is showing for sunny Saturday, partly cloudy on Sunday - no mention of rain - should be interesting = the front straight is fast and the turns are great - backmarkers will cause traffic problems for some - this is a beautiful circuit Carol
Whoa! Is that the argument now?? Do you really want me to pull out all your posts from 2007 where you point out that Massa is experienced with the team, the tires, and the car whereas Kimi was not? And how all this was going to translate into Massa dominance in 2007 and how he was going to destroy Kimi?!? Does the name "Schumassa" ring a bell?? Now your argument is that he didn't do all that bad in comparison?!? Laughable. Your standards are ratcheting down by the day. Massa had every advantage in 2007 and he was relegated to #2 status by mid-season. If you somehow think that coming in 4th out of 4 amongst the top team drivers is pretty damn good then you have clearly have a clouded perspective, especially considering the top 3 were all separated by a total of one point. Massa was over 20 points behind the other 3. The fact remains, and it is a FACT, that Kimi won the WDC with an unfamiliar car, unfamilar tires, and a brand new team whereas Massa, with all his experience and supposed advatanges within the team (including tutelage from the almighty Schumacher) not only finished well behind the other 3 top drivers, he finished over 20 points behind and would have cost the team the WCC had not the courts intervened. Each and every one of those top 3 drivers was with a new team, each of them had to come to grips with a new car, and NONE of them had raced on Bridgestones, yet EACH ONE beat Massa by over 20 points. What possible excuse are you going to try and pawn off next?!?
Once again we conveniently forget the fact that Jean Todt pushed that contract through before he was shunted aside as Team Principal and we also conveniently forget that Massa's manager happens to be Todt's son. Leaving that aside, what will your excuse be WHEN Massa is released from that contract, perhaps as soon as this season. Will you trot out your "they know more than you" argument then? Yes, I doubt it too.
Where do you get this? Kimi started his F1 career in 2001 and Massa in 2002. Granted Massa spent 2003 as a Ferrari test driver that in no way denigrates the quality seat time he had during that season. Massa's had about as much seat time as Kimi and certainly is as "seasoned" as Kimi is. I suggest you take yours off. I find it very funny that this year, and last, you've been beating the drum to "we don't know how good a driver really is until he's in a poor performing car" in regards to Hamilton and Alonso. Now that Alonso is in the underperforming Renault you're singing his praise as he's doing something with it. But yet, you conveniently discard Massa's poor performance in the underperforming Sauber. Not only that you know he underperformed and because of it chided Ted not to use those years in his (Ted's) argument against Massa. Why the double standard? And "a poor way to make a point?" That's all you've been doing when discounting Hamilton's talent by saying we really won't know how good he is until he's in an underperforming car! Sorry Ron, if you use your own litmus test for Massa he doesn't measure up. I get it. He's a likable guy and you like him. The truth is if he's got a clear track and perfect conditions he can be very fast and win a race. But, eliminate those perfect conditions by adding in some variables like say, other drivers he needs to pass, and he just doesn't match up to Kimi or the other top drivers. They on the other hand excel when those variables are applied. Also regarding Alonso and your contact at Ferrari, unless the weekend brings some variables say rain, Alonso will continue to battle with the Toyotas and Red Bulls. While Renault does have a large update package coming for the race so do the other teams. I also don't believe he's as good a development driver as you do. They should have kept Fisi for that bit.
Weather forecast is not quite as dreary as its been reported: Friday 22c high 11 low 10% chance of rain - Partly cloudy Saturday 22/12 SUNNY and KIMI on Pole! Sunday 20/13 Partly Cloudy and KIMI P1! So sez DF1 and Weather.com
Can't explain that one. Meant Alonso. You're right BMW Sauber, old habits die hard, too many years calling them Sauber. Regardless, I believe that Kubica driving a BMW Sauber will win a WDC before Alonso driving a Renault. As for Massa, this it it for him, if Kimi wins again and Massa losses the championship he's done at Ferrari. He is fortunate to be in a top-tier car and we all know you can't win a championship without one. The days of Jackie Stewart driving for Ken Tyrrell and winning a championship are long gone.
