Sparks coming from the idle adjustment screws? | FerrariChat

Sparks coming from the idle adjustment screws?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by lear60man, Jan 10, 2013.

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  1. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Christian
    Can't be normal right?

    I decided to adjust the idle as she was idling warm at 1,200 RPM. I didnt know that the adjustment screws are hand tight. So I grabbed a wrench, waited for the fans to kick in and the wrench sparked when it made contact with the adjustment screw and the housing.

    Good news is that I turned them clockwise (by hand) about .5 turns each and the car is idling much smoother now, just above 1,000 RPM.

    Christian
    1990 US TR

    One more for the collective, my left hand window switch is forward of the left hand window switch on the center console. The Ricambi parts diagram shows them reversed. Kinda weird as they are different part numbers but i want to replace the right switch as it sticks in the Up Position.

    Back to the garage.........
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think you mangled this unless you have two left hand windows ;)

    but they were probably (wrongly) swapped during some interior work -- easy to swap back.
     
  3. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Yea, the Drivers switch is forward of the Passengers switch. Haha Thats an easy fix.

    Now what about the Sparks?
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a new one for me -- if you use a DC voltmeter to measure between the air bypass screw and whatever housing you contacted (when the engine is running) do you get a significant DC voltage?
     
  5. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    I just bought a volt meter yesterday so bear with me. I have the dial set at 20 on the DCV range. With one probe on the set screw and the other probe on the housing I get nothing. With one probe on the housing and the other probe on miscellaneous ground. I get .40. So that led me to believe that the whole housing was getting a current....same reading on the entire left intake housing..... .40ish.

    When it did spark, the car stalled momentarily. That was enough to tell me dont try to recreate it again.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Seems too highish & strange -- are you sure that the braided groundstrap at the rear of the powerplant is in good shape/clean/tight/etc. on both ends?
     
  7. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    Will check in the AM.
     
  8. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Couldnt wait, Ground strap was a little dirty. Pulled the strap, cleaned it, sanded down the ends to bright metal, same with the two washers and nuts.

    Ill start her in the morning. Not too terribly concerned as there are grounding points on the lower intake manifold on the right side by the 7-8 fuel injectors.
     
  9. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
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    Could the spark be simple static electricity?
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If you had a very serious flaw in the grounding between the chassis and the powerplant, something probably would've melted during starter motor cranking, so I'll predict that this is going to be something a little off the beaten path.

    Perhaps I should've first asked:

    1. where exactly is this "other ground" that you are using, and

    2. by "entire left intake housing" do you mean the 7-12 upper intake plenum?

    ~0.4V seems a subtle (yet unusual) fault if you are measuring between the 7-12 upper intake plenum and the chassis (but perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are reporting).
     
  11. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
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    Steve,
    Do you think it would be a good idea to put extra ground wires on the engine?
    Like a 10 GA. wire all the way to the battery.



    Ago
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Not a fan of that just for the added weight (and would need to be a much larger gauge to be effective), but also don't think that it's necessary (yet ;)) if the stock system is in good nick.
     
  13. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    OK:

    1. The 'other ground' I was referring to is between the 5 and 6 fuel injectors on the intake plenum. The 'other ground' was just an observation that Im assuming some current must pass through the plenum by design, as there is a ground for it. I wasnt using it for readings, just an Ah-Ha moment.

    2. Yes, the entire 7-12 upper intake plenum.

    Hope this clarifies things a little.
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Steve is correct (and far wiser than I, on the 12VDC Ferrari systems) but you want the roiginal ground scheme 'working as designed" not a bunch of multiple paths..

    I was really hoping (reading yesterday) that you found an unbolted strap.

    Your symptoms are really two problems:

    Where the potential is coming from.
    Why it needs a ground.

    Good luck you'll get it sorted!
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Did you grind down to fresh metal also at the frame side of the connection?

    There's also greases that improve conductivity.....fighting corrosion build up.
     
  16. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Not yet ;) (your result implies that the components of the engine are at different potential, and that seems odd)

    Are you saying that:

    If you measure from the chassis to "between the 5 and 6 fuel injectors on the intake plenum" you get X volts, but

    If you measure from the chassis and the 7-12 upper intake plenum you get Y volts?

    Please advise the X and Y values...
     
  17. 302Tim

    302Tim Formula 3

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    #17 302Tim, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    Thanks Tim for the pic. I didnt measure the grounding point in the picture above, just on the left side upper and lower plenum. I have to give this a rest for the weekend as Ill be in Vegas for work. Ill take some more readings on Monday (or Sunday night if the wife doesnt see me sneak in.)

    Christian

    Good news, before it would idle about 100 RPM too high and bounce up and down on a cold start. After the adjustment the bounce is only a few seconds then 1,100 RPM.
     
  19. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    I had my buddy over for dinner. He is a Senior Tech with Porsche (35 years) and we played with the volt meter. .01 max everywhere we measured. Cold, warm etc....nothing over .01. He was familiar with the fuel system and took readings off of the the alternator, engine ground, plenums etc. all normal. My readings were gone. Cant explain it, pulled out the wrench and no sparks/arcing at all.
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's usually best ;)

    The ground location shown in Tim's photo is where the engine supplies ground into the KE-Jetronic injection system -- it isn't another ground connection between the chassis(battery) and the powerplant.
     

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