Speciale EPB and AVH Failure | FerrariChat

Speciale EPB and AVH Failure

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Shack, Dec 9, 2017.

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  1. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2005
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    Earth
    So I took the Speciale out for a short drive and I stopped did a U turn and parked. When I came back to the car I had an EPB and AVH failure (Electronic Park Brake & Auto Vehicle Hold). No matter what I tried I could not get the AVH to disengage.

    Read up on FChat and a few other places and eventually the car had to be towed (AVH still engaged). Still under warranty but if anyone had a similar experience it would be good to know.
     
  2. alvchua

    alvchua Karting

    Feb 16, 2011
    57
    Adelaide, South Aust
    Jon - I've had this problem several times - especially just prior to both my batteries died and got replaced under warranty. Even recently, it still occasionally happens when I have neglected to charge the battery. Took it to Mario at Zags last time I was there and he gave the Italian shrug - apparently it's a common issue. I've learnt to keep the battery tender on after each and every drive now.
     
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  3. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Thanks A. I read up about this but mine is always on tender and so I found this strange (might have been a sudden drop in voltage that caused it) . Anyway its a Zag now so we shall see whats what soon.
     
  4. RossoNero

    RossoNero Karting

    Sep 7, 2012
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    JHB, South Africa
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    Henry
    There is a tool in your toolkit that you can use to disengage the e-brake manually. The process is described in the owner’s manual.


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  5. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    That is the procedure to take the transmission out of park. It has nothing to do with the parking brakes. There is a special socket in the toolkit that you must use to loosen the parking brake calipers/pads on a Speciale if there is a malfunction with the parking brake system. There is a description of the procedure in the owners manual.
     
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  6. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Yup thats what the guys at the dealership did

    Still waiting on the diagnosis of the actual cause of the issue
     
  7. Baitschev

    Baitschev Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2017
    262
    Vienna
    Hi Check Foxwell NT510 for Ferrari
    You can check and reset nearly everything
     
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  8. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2005
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    Was the ECU. New one coming soon and will report back. Will be getting instructions on how to "unlock" the AVH manually as per the manual
     
  9. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Please note that loosening the electronic parking brake on Ferrari with the type of rear brake calipers that use a socket in order to remove the tension on the parking brake pads (458 Special, Laferrari and 488) should only be done as a last resort. This procedure basically compromises/destroys the rear brake calipers. The Ferrari repair manual states that the rear brake calipers must be replaced if the electronic parking brake/AVH is manually unlocked in this fashion.
    This is a $20k bill on a LaFerrari, so when we had a car with a dead battery, we did everything that we could to get the car to power up in order to get the EPB to come off.
    I have been thinking that it would be good to get the portion of the brake caliper wiring harness with the electrical connector attached, so I can plug it into the caliper and electronically disengage the EPB without resorting to damaging the caliper.
    If the guys at the dealership manually unlocked your EPB/AVH with the special tool, then the brake calipers should be replaced.
     
  10. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Brian - how does the caliper get destroyed? Just trying to understand this.
     
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  11. RossoNero

    RossoNero Karting

    Sep 7, 2012
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    Whoops, sorry - thought that’s what we were dealing with here.


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  12. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    The electronic parking brakes and AVH use electric motors built into the brake calipers to compress separate parking brake pads (from the regular brake pads). The park lock in the transmission is like putting an a car with an automatic transmission into park.

    When the engine is not running on a car with a DTC transmission there is no hydraulic pressure to operate the clutch packs. So even though the gears in the transmission are mechanically engaged the car would still roll if the engine is not running, hence the need for a park lock mechanism. It is automatically engaged whenever you shut the car off, unless you put the car into "Car wash mode". But you must have the ignition on in order to have the car in Car Wash mode. So you must use the special tool to disengage the transmission if the car is in park with the battery off.

    I don't know what happens to the brake calipers when the tool is used to disengage them. It is just Ferrari policy to replace them if this procedure has been performed and is listed so in the repair manual. My guess is that it is a liability issue, like no repairs to seatbelt retractors.
     
  13. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 19, 2007
    935
    Long shot, but I also noticed that this happened to me when I had the Waylens Horizon OBD II data logger plugged into the car while driving. However instead of it happening when I started the car, it happened as I was driving -- very scary. The transmission shifted up to 7th and wouldn't let me down shift. I got a transmission error along with the EPB/AVH error. Parked it, and started it again and it was seemingly not wanting to clear the errors. I tried to think through what I may have done differently on that drive while sitting on the side of the road letting the car go into deep sleep and it dawned on met that I plugged in the OBD II data logger for my driving camera just before I started the car.

    Pulled the logger and the issue went away. Scary thing was that I plugged it back in as a good engineer trying to debug an issue, and it came back almost instantly.

    Car is always on a tender.
     
  14. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    It sounds like the data logger was actually causing the fault. EPB and AVH failure warnings will typically appear when there are communication/CAN line issues between different ECUs in the car. If there is some small bit of information is missing, such as a brake light switch malfunctioning, it will cause the dash to light up like a christmas tree and cause failure warnings from multiple systems to display on the dash TFT.
     
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  15. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Brian. I will ask the tech whether he loosened the pads via the tool or used the motors (manually). My understanding is that the EVH pads are independent "small" ones and not sure if the same issue i.e. damage is applicable
     
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  16. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Checked the manual and nowhere does it say replace the pads
    Image Unavailable, Please Login he pads.
     
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  17. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    #18 Motob, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
    That is the owners manual. You have to have the dealership look at the factory workshop manual to read about the EPB release procedure.

    If you read the owners manual you will notice the sentence "The EPB procedure is irreversible and compromises the functionality of the parking brake" and "For safety reasons the reset procedure is mandatory"

    Ferrari does not want the just the brake pads replaced after this procedure is performed. They want both entire rear brake caliper assemblies to be replaced if the EPB release procedure is performed, not an inexpensive proposition. The replacement of the rear brake calipers is the "reset procedure that is mandatory". Hopefully your car is still under warranty.
     
  18. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Ok - Thanks I will ask me tech and yes the car is under warranty so all covered. Thanks for the info BTW - really helpful.
     
  19. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    So apparently the bolts on the AVH are "torque once ONLY" bolts and hence these apparently need to be replaced not the pads. Getting this confirmed though. Would be good to know if ts the case as then not such a bog deal if one has to undo them in case of an emergency
     
  20. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    The bolts are not available separately from the brake caliper. As I said before, Ferrari policy is to replace the entire rear brake caliper if the EPB emergency release procedure has been performed. Which costs roughly $10k AUS Dollars. It is stated in all of the factory repair manuals and training manuals that a Ferrari tech gets when he gets official Ferrari training. Any Ferrari tech that works on your car should have this knowledge.
    This is why the EPB release procedure should be performed only as a last resort, when all other methods fail.
    You could contact Brembo (the brake caliper manufacturer) to get their policy on the replacement of the rear brake caliper if the EPB release procedure has been performed. The brake calipers that are used on your 458 Special (and the 488gtb, Laferrari, and now the 812) are the Brembo "Extrema" caliper.
     
  21. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    I only read this Brian: we loosen the cables ... so no harm is done to any brake calipers ... or do I read wrong ?


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  22. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Brian. I am under warranty and will be purchasing additional two years warranty so I guess not much to worry about. But very good to know so thanks
     
  23. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Melvok, On all of the other Ferrari's with electronic parking brakes (458 Italia, California/T, FF, F12, GTC4Lusso) there is a separate motor that puts tension on cables that actuate the parking brakes. When you shut the car off, you can hear the motor spin as it applies the parking brakes. The emergency release procedure on this system consists of inserting a handle with a flexible shaft into the parking brake motor and turning it many revolutions in order to release the parking brakes. No harm is done to the system when this procedure is performed, and the system will automatically reset once it has power and starts working again. Just be sure to remove the emergency handle when you are done. If it is left in place and the system starts working again, it will spin the handle very fast (causing it to fly across the shop, don't ask me how I know this).

    It is only the very high performance Ferrari's (458 Speciale, 488, LaFerrari and 812) with the Brembo Extrema brake calipers that have the special bolts that are loosened to release the EPB where it is an issue.
    Regards,
    Brian
     
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  24. carcommander

    carcommander Formula 3

    Sep 28, 2006
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    I had this issue on my 488. I took the ground cable off the battery, counted to 10 and put it back on. The break released. I got it to the dealer and it was determined that the AVH module was bad.
     
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