Speciale Market

Discussion in '458 Italia/488' started by DM1, Jan 21, 2018.

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  1. 338Lapua

    338Lapua Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2015
    476
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Tony
    I have seen dealers charge about $70k above MSRP (and they actually sold the car) for a used Speciale and then have seen the same car come back on the market, from the same dealer 8 months later, for only $20-30K over MSRP. The miles were not even significantly different.
     
  2. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    312
    Depends on the spec. If the car is loaded up to near $400k on special stitching, carbon fiber, historical paint color, and alcantara, then you bet it's going for below MSRP.

    Generally, any Speciale with over $340k MSRP is starting to spend on cosmetic options, which hold value the least. Cars with $380k MSRP are certainly loaded up on options like "alcantara wheel wells" that are absurdly over priced and ultimately add no value to the car.
     
  3. bobbyd

    bobbyd Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    640
    Looks to me that current retail on the "typical" Speciale is mid $300K range, say $340K to $370K.

    Outliers may be high spec cars with next to no mileage which may sell for more and "high mile" cars which may sell for a little less.

    Average miles looks to be about 1000 - 1200 annually looks like.

    In terms of future value: who knows? Like any Ferrari it's value will be mileage sensitive in the first 10 - 15 years, and thereafter it will be more a function of it's condition.
     
    Solid State likes this.
  4. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Nov 23, 2012
    13,762
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    I think the Speciale is the greatest modern, mid engine Ferrari. I think they will continue to go up in value.
     
    AlfistaPortoghese and italiafan like this.
  5. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

    Jul 19, 2006
    8,988
    USA
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    IMO there is no finer midengined modern sports car in the World.
     
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  6. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
    282
    Full Name:
    Napoli
    No argument here, but judging by all of the low mile/never tracked samples, it seems to have found its place as a garage queen. Bought to be pampered and sold. Or kept and admired.
     
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  8. DM1

    DM1 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 9, 2006
    946
    Southwest
    Full Name:
    DM
    Any market updates on the low mile (under 2k mi) Cars ?
     
  9. FerrariFL

    FerrariFL Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2012
    455
    Market is still strong and limited cars... The Speciale has all the ingredients to make for a decent investment that you can really drive and enjoy. I believe the market agrees and that what has kept the values strong. I sold mine like 18 mo and recently purchased another that i plan to keep for some time.
     
  10. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    312

    Ferrari of Washington listed a silver car for $400k and it sold within a few days.

    Good specs (lots of utility options) tend to sell relatively quick (1-2 months).

    Bad specs can sit for a long time.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  11. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
    1,661
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    I recently turned down an offer of 420k from the previous owner of my 1,800 mile Speciale. Values must be solid when previous owners are regretting letting cars go, and/or looking to find one to buy and keep.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  12. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

    Jul 19, 2006
    8,988
    USA
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
  13. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
    1,661
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Yeeeeaaaahhh Boy!!! I can see why... she's gorgeous! :)
     
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  15. Afonsolaw

    Afonsolaw Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2011
    1,872
    New jersey
    Looks great love the color combo and gold calipers
     
  16. jesusrdzc

    jesusrdzc Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 4, 2006
    112
    El Paso Tx/Cd Juarez
    Full Name:
    JRC
    Its been a long while since I last posted in Ferrari chat. Very interesting discussion. Lots of valid points of view.
    It does help to know presumptive market values to adjust insurance valuation on the Speciales.
    I wont sell my car unless I find the need to sell it. It is just so much of what a Ferrari is supposed to be.
    I find my self to busy or traveling for work or with family, that every chance I get to drive it it puts a smile on my face is like the first time you go out with the girl you liked in high school.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2013
    516
    AUSTRALIA
    Full Name:
    ANGELO
    IMO the Speciale looks way way better than the 458 but the 458 looks better inside. However saying that I just don't get the situation people don't drive them ? Granted not every day but 4-5,000 kms / year isn't much
     
  18. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    330
    Austin TX
    Sorry, I am going to have to disagree with this.

    Except major story cars (i.e. salvage) there is no evidence of any US-based Speciale selling for below MSRP.

    As for the supposed detractors of specialized non-performance related options, I think you must understand to some those are very valuable.

    I personally know of an amazing Yellow with Blue Carbon everything (Miller Motorcars) that sold for 30K+ over its original MSRP of 404K (that's the highest MSRP I have found in the past year).

    Even one of the demonstrator cars with 7K+ miles sold for over MSRP.

    Of course everything is open to negotiation but there is no reason I can find to suspect that any are selling below MSRP.

    So, in general I disagree with your assessment and I have been watching the Speciale market nearly everyday for the past 12 months and I reviewed the market for the past 2 years before that, details I could find here on FChat for the most part.

    In my opinion, at the moment there has been a flurry of motivated (consignment) sellers willing to dump their cars at a lower sale value than they could receive if they were patient and hold out for a reasonable value, and many 2015's are nearly at the end of their original 3-year factory warranty (you can add +2 years for about 11K if done within 60 days of expiration) so, there is some "value loss" due to original 3-year expiration (all 2014s have already had this occur).

    As to why there has been a flurry of motivated sellers, you could say it's winter time and it is a buyers market in the winter, it could be they want to get in line for an 812 or maybe have already put in their 488VS order (I understand it is already sold out for first year or so of production). Or, perhaps, they are concerned once the 488VS is released soon (Geneva show probably) that for some reason Speciale values will be affected. To me, the Speciale is the last of its kind and the 488VS is not going to change that.
     
  19. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,048
    SoCal
    Speciale transaction prices have been $350-400k for quite some time and don’t appear to be shifting. This is above msrp and should stay that way. Might take 20yrs for these to really appreciate though.
     
  20. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 7, 2014
    4,334
    Sarasota , Florida
    Full Name:
    Kirk
    Rob , that’s a very high mileage car but I’ll take it. I’ll bring a check with me Saturday.
    Ps. I’m gonna paint it black too. :)
     
  21. Solid State

    Solid State Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
    2,153
    You have been watching the market quite closely so that's a solid place to be. However, if you have been watching previous models over previous years you might have seen that once sales go below MSRP the price generally keeps going down. And yes the VS has a lot to do with owners wanting to sell I would assume which puts more up for sale. Its not an LE, not the last NA V8, and not the last Speciale so once the price knee heads down you should get a break especially the longer you wait as more come on line.
     
  22. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    330
    Austin TX
    Thanks, but, what do you mean (highlighted above)

    not the last NA V8

    besides a 2015 458 Italia, how exactly is the 458 Speciale not the last NA V8 ? that's news to me, it is the highest performance NA V8 that Ferrari ever made (best I can tell) and, again, best I can tell, every V8 made since MY2015 is Turbocharged

    oh, one more tidbit I think I have figured out, and it is based on all sorts of input there is likely between 500-800 Speciale's made for the USA, so, not a lot to go around, but still a sizeable number (and, seems no more than 25 or so are every publicly listed for sale at any one time...that's curious, because I have not seen any "run up" at all in the past year regarding the number of 458S being offered (i.e. leading to launch of the much anticipated and nearly ready 488VS) -- and note that sometimes cars listed as being for sale are already sold and gone/out of dealer inventory, but are left for lead generation)

    However, the "tipping point" on price, if you will, has been long predicted (2+ years) and still has not materialized and we are well on the way to the 488VS being launched...

    But, I agree, if prices drop off, they will continue to do so to a point, a bottom, but, where that is, a big guess right now (as a reference, FFS has a 5 year residual at 184K, do you think the bottom will be there in 5 years?)

    One more car I know of was triple black (no stripes, black wheels, black calipers), 324 mile car, sold for over 420K in past few months (from a dealer), same dealer has another triple black right now, not same car, 4300 miles at 389K ask...both are 2015 models...could be the MSRP will never become status quo...
     
  23. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    330
    Austin TX
  24. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 26, 2008
    7,335
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Umm, pretty limited edition and defiantly the last normally aspirated V8. Keep trying to talk those prices down, it hasn't worked for the last 24 months but hey! You never know...:rolleyes:

    Speciale will go nowhere but UP. You can take that to the bank.
     
  25. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    1,301
    Although in a limited way, they have been going down in Europe during the last year - all Ferrari have (to various extents) after the 2014-2016 euphoria.
     
  26. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 26, 2008
    7,335
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark

    Could be, don't know that market at all. All I can tell you is the US market is as strong for the Speciale as it has ever been. I don't see the newest turbo whiz bang car changing that. It is the last of an era.
     
  27. Solid State

    Solid State Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
    2,153
    #75 Solid State, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
    Currently, the last NA V8 Ferrari product introduced was the SA Aperta which is also an LE and the last Special of the 458 series. The Special itself is, as I posted, none of those. That is just pure fact. Interestingly, I believe that the Italia, Spider, Speciale and SA Aperta were all on the production line at the same time very briefly so the last assembled car is not actually known - at least to the general public. Ferrari also makes and sells engines so the last NA V8 engine is also unknown. This is all very well documented on this site as the series evolved. Many here have inaccurately referred to the Speciale as the last NA just as many here have also said the Italia and 458 Spider were also the last.

    I happen to really like the Speciale for what it is but not what it isn't. Its special enough without assigning it last status. The owners of the SA Aperta know what they have and that car is the keeper for value but the Special is the keeper for driving. The Speciale will retain value more than the Italia but keep in mind that the mid-engine V8s were the high production bread and butter vehicle to pay the bills with and its the actual "1 of " cars that are climbers for the modern cars.

    Dmark1 - I have no horse in the Speciale race so not talking down prices and not sure what that actually means. Sounds pretty bad though. I am a V12 guy and IMO have the very best Ferrari made that is definitely a "last" in more ways than the Speciale and I don't care about making or losing money on any car. I hope all production Ferrari's retain their value as long as possible just for the brand's sake but not for the benefit of owners looking to get out without a loss. Not insinuating that applies to you as many Speciale owners love their cars regardless of perceived "loss". Best.
     

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