Speciale Wheels vs 458 wheels | FerrariChat

Speciale Wheels vs 458 wheels

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 2Veloce, Mar 17, 2015.

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  1. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

    Aug 8, 2014
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    annapolis, maryland
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    Al
    My 2015 spider final arrived today!. First F car. I bought matt black speciale wheels to be installed. The dealer said i should buy 4 speciale size tires. However this would make the the car 15mm taller in the front compared to the back tires. Below are the specs i found

    458
    Five Spoke 20”, 5 X 114.3 mm
    Front 8.5J X 20 ET 46.5mm, Rear 10.5J X 20 ET 58.5 mm

    458 Speciale
    Five Spoke 20”, 5 X 114.3 mm
    Front 9J X 20 ET 44.7 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 48.4 mm

    Tires front/rear 458: 235/35/20 front rear 295/35/20
    speciatle: 245/35/20 front rear 305/20/20

    On previous chat lines there was concern with the traction control problems using the speciale wheels with the speciale spec tires on the 458 ( due to running diameter differences). Chatters recommended speciale front tires/speciale front wheels with 458 size tires /special rear wheels. So this in contrary to what the dealer recommends. They said they know best and not putting the "right size" tires on the speciale wheels would not be recommended . They said they would not responsible for anything that might happen. . Any recent thoughts on this situation? I need to let them know asap. Also what do people think about installing remote radar detectors? The want 3400 for that..Thanks in advance..
     
  2. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

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    #2 DK308, Mar 17, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
    Everything about what your dealer said is moronic. First off, the MPSC2 does not come in a 458 Spider size. Secondly, if your dealer knows best, why does he not know that Speciale size tyres won't work with the ESC system, and as you said, the rear will sit 15mm lower than the front. This will upset balance, suspension geometry, and aero as it will allow much more air to get underneath the car - not to mention it will look ridiculous.
    Third, the OEM MPSS are made to fit 8"-9.5" wide rims for the front and 10"-11.5" for the rear - and the rim itself has nothing to do with it.
    Get your MPSS tyres put on your Speciale rims, and enjoy your car - and find a shop that actually knows what they are doing. Besides, if you primarily want to drive your car on the road and not plan to track it, and live someplace where it rains, the MPSS is a better choice than the Speciale MPSC tyres.
    Sounds like he just wants to sell you a set of Speciale tyres.
    Your dealer sounds like a jerk frankly. Make sure he does not use this as some kind of excuse to later hit you with some kind of warranty void case due to this, he can't do that.
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 tazandjan, Mar 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The traction control issue you worry about is actually an ABS sensor issue if the front to rear tire diameter differential exceeds 4-5% from OEM differential. Not an issue here and your 458 tires will, like 2V said, work fine on Speciale wheels. If you have questions on minimum and maximum wheel width for any given tire, use TireRack's spec page on the tires you want to fit.

    Your wheel specs came from the document I wrote. Now I need offsets for the 488. Have everything else. Any help on the 488 offsets appreciated. Using the casting marks on the back preferably.
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  4. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    I believe Synergy (Chris) has Speciale rims with Italia/Spider tire specs with no problems,
    you might want to pm him, he might have more info

    best
     
  5. rghataode

    rghataode Rookie

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    #6 rghataode, Mar 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. GrahamPM

    GrahamPM Karting

    Jan 24, 2013
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    Cheshire
    #7 GrahamPM, Mar 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've run Speciale wheels on my Italia for the past year, and decided from the outset to 'upsize' the tyres by 10mm but keep the profile exactly as standard Italia spec.
    I have 245/35 - 20" front and 305/35 - 20" rears, all 'F' rated Pirelli's as per standard supply.
    No issues with any sensors etc.
    Did also fit the titanium wheel bolts - the chromed versions look to 'obvious' against the grey of the wheel for my liking!
    Graham
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  7. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

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    #8 DK308, Mar 18, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
    Just to clear a few things here. As long as you keep the front to rear diameter difference the same , i.e, 6% front-to-rear, it won't matter what width they are or what diameter they are, or what offset they have. The sensors don't know any of these things, they only know if the wheels rotate at a different speed front to back, than what the cars system was programmed to work with. The system can handle a certain variation, as it needs to be able to work with tyres wearing differently, small variations between models etc. As an example, the PZero rears, are specced with a diameter of 28", where as the MPSS are 28.1" and so on.
    As long as the tyre is rated for the rim width and diameter, as the OE 458 tyres are, there will not now, and not ever be an issue due to rim width. What you might experience, is that the steering feels a bit "quicker" and responsive as the tyres are stretched a bit more - they might also feel a bit harder against the road surface. But honestly, the variations will be so subtle that you'll need to seriously know your car to notice the difference. The more aggressive offset will load the suspension harder, but also provide more cornering stability. The lighter wheels will also add to performance in subtle ways. All in all, aside from looking great, your car should feel slightly more aggressive with the Speciale rims and OE tyres. It will be very subtle, so don't expect miracles.


    What ever you do, good luck with it and enjoy that amazing machine:)
     
  8. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

    Aug 8, 2014
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    DK308 thanks for the time to explaining things. Dealer still insisting putting speciale spec tires on the speciale rims. I'm really concerned esp the esthetics of the 15mm height difference. I may override there recommendations and put speciale spec tires on the front and OE tires on the rear ( with speciale rims). I just need to make sure they make mich pilots for the speciale tires in the front.. Dealer hasn't responded back since i expressed further concerns. We'll see what happens tomorrow...
     
  9. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

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    #10 DK308, Mar 19, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
    Firstly - don't mix these tyres. They are very different and you'll risking seriously upsetting the balance. You can get MPSS tyres in the Speciale size, which is pointless on a Spider. I can't see that there are any MPSC2 tyres that will work really well on the 458 Spider/Italia. Closest ting is to run 325/30R20 in the rear with 245/35R20 on fronts, and honestly, I'm not sure if that will cause problems down the road as the tyres wear. If the rears wear faster than the fronts, I'm very sure it will. It will also make the car understeer more, as you increase grip in the rear.
    If you want to run a high performance tyre, get Pirelli PZero Trofeo R tyres. They are available in Spider size. But note that they are even more aggressive than MPSC2 tyres.

    Do you get the OE 458Spider wheels with the car? If so, go someplace else for the Speciale rims. Sounds like I would not trust those guys with a golf cart wheel.

    Oh, and let me just explain some of the downsides to installing the Speciale tyres. We can agree that the stance itself will look dumb, but think of this. When the car sits in a reverse wedge, it will allow air pressure to rise underneath, which will increase lift. The suspension will "attack" the road at a different angle than what it is set up for. The rear diffuser will become less effective, as it gets closer to the ground which in turn will decrease downforce on the rear axle. Balance during acceleration and breaking will be altered.
    Has the shop made it clear how they will deal with these issues? My guess is no they have not. But someone took the liberty to tell you a BS story about the OE tyres not working on the Speciale wheels. Can you see why I'm absolutely baffled by the whole thing?
     
  10. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

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    Well i think the dealer meant well. They took the trouble of taking a set of speciale wheels off a car at the dealership. Ran them.Took photos for me to see ( i'm in annapolis, car in CT). Looked good but they said the traction control wouldnt allow it. So they tried fitting the OE tires, and they said they fit fine. So thats what ended up happening. All today too! I must say the car looks great ( rossa corsa red with matt black speciale wheels). The wheels look funny without the titanium lug nuts. They wanted 3300 for those . Ended up getting them through Chris/Scudera systems (great person to deal with). for 1600 bucks.. OE from ferrari. So once those are on, the car will be screaming handsome! Thanks all your your comments and help...
     
  11. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

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    Glad to see your dealer chose to make a good decision. Enjoy that car to the fullest:)
     
  12. F430kenric

    F430kenric Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2011
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    You Ferrari looks awesome! Love red/black!
     
  13. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

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    yes it looks great. I just looked at the MPSS's. I should have looked at the P zero's in the sizes you noted. That would have been perfect. They ended up fitting my OEM's on the speciale wheels. When i change them out, i'll switch to your config..thanks
     
  14. -CD-

    -CD- F1 Rookie
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    Which titanium studs did you run with the Speciale wheels?
    The old version or the new 2-piece version?
     
  15. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

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    If you want to put on a larger tyre to fill out the wheel arch gap, you could also go with the F12 spec MPSS in 255/35R20 and 315/35R20
     
  16. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

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    #17 2Veloce, Apr 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Appears to be one piece. I ordered what Chris with Scuderia systems recommended...
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  17. -CD-

    -CD- F1 Rookie
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    That looks like no original Ferrari part.

    The 1-piece stud has a bigger head, is complete grey and raw and the
    2-piece is grey and dark greyand has a small head.

    What kind of studs sell Scuderia Systems? Do you have a better pic from a stud?
     
  18. -CD-

    -CD- F1 Rookie
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    #19 -CD-, Apr 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

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    #20 2Veloce, Apr 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

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    Scuderia systems has a 20 yr relationship with ferrari..One of few companies that can buy parts directly through ferrari. I bought my speciale wheels through them. I guess this is a 2 piece stud vs a one piece. My bad on description..
     
  21. -CD-

    -CD- F1 Rookie
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    70001219, yes that is the 2-piece version! :)

    Sorry on the first pic it was a little bit tricky to see.

    Thanks for the better pic and thanks for the info,
    that your Speciale rims work with the 2-piece version!

    I just ordered a Speciale set from eurospares and i have a 70001219 set and
    was a little bit unsure if the 2-piece stud work.

    Do you have a pice how the studs look in the Speciale rim?
     
  22. 2Veloce

    2Veloce Formula Junior

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    #23 2Veloce, Apr 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is my first F car...arriving in 3 hours!. below is a pic with the speciale wheels with the OEM spider lugs. Looks a bit odd. Didnt know about that otherwise i would have ordered the titanium lugs with the wheels. So when i install the titanium lugs will post pics..
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  23. -CD-

    -CD- F1 Rookie
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    Which size is better for the Speciale rims? Original italia setup with 235/35 and 295/35
    or 245/35 and 305/35?

    I' a little bit afraid, that the 235 and 295 didn't cover up the rim flange enough.

    Any ideas?
     
  24. -CD-

    -CD- F1 Rookie
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    235 and 295 would make MPSS use possible and after i run them on the Scud,
    i love them!

    245 and 305 would be Pirelli, because Michelin didn't offer a 305/35 size. :(
     

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