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Speed sensor failure 10 Cali 8500 miles -

Discussion in 'California/Portofino' started by Tides, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. Tides

    Tides Karting

    Sep 5, 2015
    51
    So. - driving home and the red transmission sign comes on and we suddenly have only odd gears working - Knew it was not good - took it in to F of TB and diagnosis was a speed sensor failure - Didn't realize that Ferrari have to double check diagnosis before giving go ahead to dealership -
    Anyway, nothing new about sensor issues - this one was reading a negative speed when vehicle had stopped - the offending sensor is shown below FYI and this little baby cost me $7k to replace. - 4K was labor. It is guaranteed for 2 years incl parts and labor - oh yes, the sensor cost $1300 - does this episode add weight to buying peace of mind with insurance - maybe, but my experience over the years is that self insuring wins hands down. - I reserve the right to change my mind of course. - still luv my Cali though ! [​IMG]
     
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    Interesting post. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.

    So I understand the labour charge came up to $4000, which would translate to about 30 hours of labour assuming approx. $130/hr for labour. I also assume the sensor is found on the DCT as I cannot locate it on the Ricambi parts webpages. If I'm correct then at least part of the repair service may involve 2 mechanics to perform. In that case 30 hours would translate into 2 full days (2 x 7.5 hours a day) for 2 mechanics. That's quite a lot of work involved to swap a sensor unless it's buried deep inside the DCT.

    I also love my Cali as it delivers the perfect level and combination of "silly car" fun for me. My '13 car just passed its 3rd year anniversary and I decided not to trade it in or take up any of the extended warranty options even though I paid for a warranty inspection. Instead I am adding another car while upgrading a few things my Cali... engine ECU and full exhaust upgrades would void the warranties anyway. Despite the added risks, I think it will be more fun to spend my money this way. I also plan to approach other service shops to inquire about their service arrangements before I may need their help.

    As our cars age, I think it would be worthwhile to consider using service shops other than the dealer's, simply to obtain the best value. Where I live, there are a few other top-rated service shops that can service the Cali. My dealer does perform good mechanical work but for me, their future service no longer has any warranty relevance so aside from the remaining free annual service on my car, the dealer needs to "better justify" my loyalty for any additional work.
     
  3. Tides

    Tides Karting

    Sep 5, 2015
    51
    #3 Tides, May 2, 2016
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
    It's worth noting that indie shops will not be allowed to purchase parts from dealership - It's a captive scenario for the dealership - maybe others can chime in if parts are available else where .

    Maybe to justify some of the labor cost involved I was told that the procedural manual for distmantling and rebuilding gearbox has 89 pages - There is also some $750 of various oils for the gearbox - see parts and labor breakdown in photo

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  4. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    4,317
    Malibu, CA
    If the gearbox needs work, then almost always it has to come out of the car.
    The labor for just doing that is costly.
     
  5. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

    Jul 19, 2006
    9,050
    USA
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    How long have you had the car?
    What color is it?
     
  6. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    Thanks for elaborating and providing the work order details.

    Yes, I know DCT problems are expensive to fix but some sensor assemblies can also be mounted externally. Since sensors are often considered wear-and-tear items, it makes sense to place them where they can be easily checked and replaced without opening up the whole "device", unnecessarily disturbing the internal components. Probably Getrag never intended DCTs to be serviced by non-Getrag staff and thus did not design sensor assemblies to be more easily accessible. This wouldn't be the first time for a German design. I also got the sense that it was Ferrari and perhaps other Getrag customers who pushed to have their mechanics trained to service the DCTs. Aside from customer consideration, it's also lucrative service work.

    It looks like aside from the sensor there was also about $1k+ amount of DCT fluids involved in the service! DCT work would likely remain in the realm of Fcar dealers for now but other service work like tuneups, installing aftermarket accessories, performance tuning can be performed by tuners and even other dealers.
     
  7. DonnieSteele

    DonnieSteele Rookie

    May 11, 2015
    3
    While I'd love some magical solution, I really appreciate the help and background. Thanks gang!
     
  8. ferraritommy

    ferraritommy Rookie

    Aug 2, 2017
    8
    Has anyone found a supplier for the failing sensors?
     
  9. ScottS

    ScottS Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 2, 2004
    631
    Winter Park
    Full Name:
    Scott S
    So this happened to my FF. I have a Cali as well.
    What also happened was after the sensor was replaced there was a leak in the seal in one of the transmission units ( this one the same as the other models ) which necessitates replacement. So there is more to the story. I do not know if had they reassembled without this check, whether it would have failed again.
    It was warranty work but done by their algorithm.
    The labor is as mentioned costly.

    IMHO this defect is the Achilles heel of our cars and drives their prices down with age. As warranty becomes impossible or less common, the probability of a 10-20k repair will be factored into the price. No one know
    Likelihood with age.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    The part number for the sensor is 70004182 - see the photo of the work order that Tides attached to his message (#3). In Italy, that Ferrari part is listed at EUR 702 by Forza Service in Italy. Other parts supplier may carry it but I haven't found it elsewhere. The sensor is likely made by an OEM but I have no idea which company it is. Other carmakers may also use the same sensor.


    I suspect the DCT is actually not unlike other complicated mechanical components such as automatic transmissions to work on. The main difference is that DCTs represent an entirely new market, with low volume. So currently, very few indies are trained or have experience servicing them. However, as the cars age and the number of cars using the DCTs increase, the service market for DCTs will expand and shops will acquire the expertise, parts and service costs will drop. What used to be only serviceable at Getrag, Germany are now serviceable at local Ferrari dealers.

    You will also notice Ferrari continues to use the same DCT in their new cars, pushing its envelope whenever necessary. The DCT is now a common part across platforms, ON PURPOSE, to reduce costs to buy or to design in the same transmission for new models as well as reduce servicing costs. Other makers also use the same DCT, because of the same reasons - the DCT (7DCL750) becomes cheaper as production volume for it increases at Getrag. Components and labour for them should continue to get less and less expensive.
     
  11. ferraritommy

    ferraritommy Rookie

    Aug 2, 2017
    8
    Thanks for the information. I was told by a factory ferrari technician that the clutch speed sensor did not come with that kit. He told me the only way to get the clutch speed sensor was with the ccp kit. Ferrari will not not allow anyone outside of themselves to purchase the ccp kit. Scuderia will sell me 70004182 but can not tell me if the clutch speed sensor is included.
     
  12. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    As shown in Tides's work order, 70004182 is the "STEP 3 SPEED SENSOR" which is also called "GEARBOX SPEED SENSOR KIT LEVEL 3" by Forza Service. The picture I attached before showed the sensor. Here below is the same sensor shown in the 458 parts section. However, since I don't have much information on the 7DCL750, I have no idea if this is the (only) clutch speed sensor involved although there are no other speed sensors listed in the Forza Service online catalogue.

    At any rate, I don't think it would be worthwhile to attempt a DIY unless you have a lot of experience successfully servicing transmissions or have been trained on servicing the DCT.


     
  13. Cali from CT

    Cali from CT Rookie

    Jun 27, 2018
    9
    Darien, CT
    Geez... that repair cost just seems egregious and, frankly, scares the **** out of me. Perhaps its better to avoid these chat boards (but I could never resist). As a prior R8 owner, I frequented that chat board on a somewhat regular basis. I couldn't believe the number of owners who experienced leaking magna shocks, often with low mileage. Repair cost was $2k per shock. Frankly, it spooked me after 3 1/2 years and 25k miles of ownership. I traded it in for a new Audi S8 convinced the dealer would have the shocks inspected before a trade-in offer was made. Never happened. A simple walk-around and a clean Carfax carried the day. So far, I'm lovin' my '15 Cali. Bought it with a one year extended warranty from Ferrari at a cost of $5k just for peace of mind. Don't know what I'll do next year.
     
  14. F60SA

    F60SA Karting

    Nov 15, 2014
    57
    Too many special tools for a DIY - and yes level 3 is the biggest repair on a DCT gearbox.
     
  15. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    501
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    From what I have gathered the 15 and up cars don’t have this issue, matter of fact there has only been one discussion somewhat recently on a failed 2015 DCT sensor and if I recall it was a temperature sensor and appears to be a fluke. I also understand that the DCT used in the Cali t is a gen 2 transmission and the portofino carry’s a gen 3 DCT. Honestly I wouldn’t worry too much with a Cali t as they appear to be for the most part trouble free. I’m seriously considering overlooking all earlier models and searching Cali t’s As the prices continue to fall.
     

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