Speeding on public roads

You know people say that but get on I75, I285, I85 and if you go 80mph. everyone is passing you. Not a car or two everyone. Then when you go 120 late late night where there is no one around on a strech that you know well they call you names.

 

This link shows I guess the top-speeds on LA Freeways
The highest I saw right now was 88 mph in the Diamond lane on the N/B 405 at Beach 1 exit.
Looks like most have a 85 mph speed cap, some at 70 mph.

http://www.sigalert.com/speeds.asp?Region=Greater+Los+Angeles&Road=405%20North
(Click on the FWY Directions)

Map: http://www.sigalert.com/map.asp?Region=Greater+Los+Angeles

 

I just moved to Atlanta and can attest to the fact that most people do 80 on the interstates. I think the problem is, like shelbee said, that many people ignore the fact that the far left lane is for fast moving traffic and passing and there is inevitably some yahoo driving at or below the limit in the left lane and they don't even think about glancing at their mirrors. Not too bad at 80 compared to 60 but it could be life threatening at 120+ compared to 60. Even the best drivers can be in danger when incompentent people are on the road.

 

Are you saying we have fewer deaths here? In 2002, an estimated 42,850 people died on the nation’s highways, the highest number of fatalities since 1990, according to preliminary estimates from the U. S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Clearly, we are willing to put up with the deaths.

The issue comes up as part of the mandated speed reduction to save gas. Much like a tax that is imposed temporarily and difficult to later recind, the arbitrary speed limit was imposed and has yet to be fully lifted. Probably a good thing for all of us. Have you ever taken a look at what a significant number of people are doing when they are driving around? Just about anything but driving...phones, eating, drinking etc - all in a fairly large and heavy projectile.

Add to this the complete lack of road etiquette (pass left, drive right, signals, faster car gets through without attitude) that is deeply ingrained in German driving culture and it becomes clear why the Autobahn system would not work in the US...

- JMG

 

The problem with driving 'briskly' on the roads in the US is that most of the US drivers are clueless....about what is going on around them....what's going on in their car...and most importantly....driving.

If you are 16 or so in the US and can reach the pedals and see over the dash...you get a license. Whereas in Europe it is a 2 year ordeal with some real training and testing. When I got a motorcycle license in the US the test was based on whether I could go around some cones in a parking lot at 10 MPH....those skills will save you on the road...NOT!

Every driver of a high performance car should go through some additional driver training....high speed car control...Bondurant, Barber or something like that. Even some of our Fcar friends are so arogant that they think that there will be nothing to learn at a high performance school (That is the answer I got from a majority of guys when I put together a group for a GP school at Bondurant). The mere fact that one can afford high HP sports cars doesn't mean that you can drive them with any competence.

Given the poor state of driver training and skills in the US I still think one can be fast AND safe on the public roads if one uses some common sense. I have done some breathtaking speeds in Nevada, Utah and AZ where there has been virtually nothing between your car and the horizon...and felt absolutely safe. There are enough empty mountain roads here (and in most parts of the country)that allow you to explore the car and your own abilities. Before some of you get your panties in a bunch...you have to have experienced that kind of openess to understand. I have also logged some serious tripple digit time in Europe in traffic and felt safe...where there is no way I would do that here (well...maybe in short bursts ). In Europe people are trained, expect speed, pay attention and can control their cars. Whereas when I am in traffic here...I feel that I am in a sea of idiots just waiting to do something really, really dumb.

One can drive fast on public raods and be safe, but the place to explore your and your cars LIMITS is the track. That is the safest place to go 10/10ths...or in my case 11 or 12/10ths....on occasion. I feel that track driving only sharpens your skills for both the track AND the road.

Then there is the Gastapo mentality of the US police that feel that speed is a criminal offense. Most road speed limits are set artificially low so that municipalities can raise revenue. Speed in and of itself doesn't kill or cause accidents....it is poor driver training, impaired individuals, poorly maintained vehicles, etc that are more of a contribution in traffic accidents than speed.

That's just my 2 cents...well maybe 25 cents! ) Ciao...Dino

 

We in the US are too afraid about offending someone by saying drivers over a certain age need to be tested every few years, or certain physical disabilities are reason to withold driving priviledge. We get slapped with lawsuits saying driving is freedom of expression or some crap.

Over 60, get a driving/REACTION test every 3 years.
Under 21, get a mandatory safe driving test every two years.
Under 18, only allowed to drive during daylight hours and up to 20 miles at night (or to/from work)
Bought a sports car? Send you off to Barber/Bondurant before allowing you to own a car over a certain performance rating.

Now for comfort...

Stereos while in public spaces should not exceed a certain dB level to avoid distracting other drivers.
dB levels on vehicle exhaust (especially Harleys and Acuras) should be kept to a lower volume standard to avoid distraction.
Drivers can vote people off the road for to have authorities review "unsafe vehicles" or "aggressive driving" empowering people to police themselves and violators are forced to take driving safety courses.

Any thoughts...

 

>>>"Over 60, get a driving/REACTION test every 3 years."
At that age it should be every year.

>>>"Under 21, get a mandatory safe driving test every two years."
I'm 22. When I was 16 I drove like a human being for the first 6 months because I have a ford. Then I got a Maxima and when I was 200 feet from my driveway the race was on. My point is I could pass the test but I wouldn't put it into action.

As for the race schools. What is a sports car? My Porsche '77 924? 85 944? 89 928? How about an Integra? It would be hard to exclude some cars and hard to include others.

As for the rest, it would take many years to pass the laws and many more to fine tune them. That racing school idea will never be focused on in North America. Good ideas though.

 

I agree that the speeds are not unsafe but the govt owns the highways & they will skru you if you go over 85. Over 85 in a lot of states is considered reckless driving which carries a higher penalty & depending on the speed could be regarded as a felony especially if you run from the cops & if God forbid you hit & kill some1 while evading the cops you are looking at felony murder or 1st degree murder.

So these days I keep the speed around 84-90 usually when I am cruising down the highway. I do lots of track days to get the speed out of my system

 

I'd say lawmakers pass nine bad laws for every good one passed. However, a new law took effect in Illinois the beginning of the year where you can get a ticket for plugging up the left lane:
http://week.com/morenews/morenews-read.asp?id=3182
Not sure what the laws are in other states here, but I hope it does some good here.

I feel safer driving 85 miles per hour than meeting someone doing 85 years of age. I parked my TR in a restaurant parking lot last year 200' from the entrance, i.e., the middle of nowhere. The closest car was parked ten spaces over. After eating I walk out to see an 85-year old gentleman standing next to my car, saying that he backed into my car. I was devastated. Had to fill out a police report, since I didn't know what it would cost to repaint. Fortunately, the contact point was only on the rear bumper and I was able to buff out 99.9% of the encounter. At least it was a GM car backing into me and not a Ford.

 

Just a different perspective. I live in Uk but my home is in Italy. I drive through Europe quite often, mainly using German motorways. It is not entirely correct to state that there is no limit at all. Variable speed limit signals are in place and, if you ignore them it gets really hard when you are caught by Polizei...
The all point is not the speed. Road surface conditions, traffic amount, hour of the day/night etc are the criteria that must be used to impose a limit.
Then there is the issue of responsibility. Apart from all that has been said, I do believe that every driver must be aware of his own limits and not to exceed them. Limits are again dictated by age, physical condition, training etc. But at the end of it all is self consciousness and awareness of the external conditions. This is the thing that should be tested at regular intervals to decide if you can have a license, if you are aware of your limits and wise enough not to exceed them. Should this be done properly, accident number should decrease dramatically and the all issue of speed limits could be put into perspective.

By the way, according to statistics, speed is the major contributing factor in a minority of incidents.

Ciao

Eugenio

P.S. Sorry for my English...

 

A) To get a license in Germany, you actually have to show proficiency at controling a car.
B) if you hog the left hand lane in the Autobahn, you get a ticket. If you don't use you rear view mirror on the Autobahn, you get a ticket. If you car is not equipt as it should be on the Autobahn, you get a ticket.

I use to think I was a pretty good driver at high speeds. Then I started going to track events and saw how ill equipt I was at dealing with situations where you have 0.1 seconds to make the correct decision of multiple people could DIE. After 1,500 LAPS and 32 high performance driving evnets, I know know how poor a driver I used to be and how much farther I have to go befor I'm 'good'. After this 1,500 laps and getting close to the limits of an F355B, I don't speed on the roads these days--I take it to the track where the ambulance is 30 seconds away (compare to 30 minutes), and there is NOTHING to hit if you leave the paved surfaces.

If you are driving at such a speed that you cannot carry on a conversation with a passenger without increasing the danger level, you are simply driving too fast. If you have had an incident in the last year when you attmpted a lane change and THEN noticed a car was about to occupy the same space, you are driving too fast or driving without due attention. What would have happened if that car about to enter the lane you are heading towards was traveling at 150 MHP? Would all drivers on that road that day survived? If not, then you were driving too fast.

 

AMEN!

I used to drive pretty fast on the roads. I think Mr. Hart is right, it's a an age thing. The older you get(hopefully) the more you have to lose. I still speed, any more rarely over 85, the headaches from getting caught going faster just are not worth it.

 

I am sorry but that statement makes no sense whatsoever. Are you saying that because I am entering the bus stop at Watkins Glen Raceway at over 145 mph with one car in front of me, one car behind me and one car trying to dive bomb me in the braking zone that I can't be a safe driver because I am concentrating only on driving fast??

Just because you are driving faster doesn't mean it sould diminish you ability to drive defensively and be safe.

Granted the average person going 145 mph probably isn't use to this type of speed but there is no reason that most people can't drive 100 and be safe when most do it at 80 mph.

The main reason we have such low speed limits is because the level of driving skill in this country required to get a license are so low. PLAIN AND SIMPLE !!!!!

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

I am also annoyed when people do 55-60 in the left lane, thinking they are doing the world a favor by not speeding. All this does is cause road rage and disrupts the flow of traffic. The left lane isnot the fast lane damn it, its the passing lane! I wish state police enforced this laww more strictly since the traffic flows so mich better when everyone keeps right. I always stay as far right as possible when not passing anyone, even on 3 lane roads i will go 70 in the right lane if the road is empty. Then again, i never really go more than 70 (in a 65 zone and 65-68 in a 55 on the highway. In Ny there are too many cops and insurance is already too expensive and it wont get any cheaper until i'm 25.

 

I've had the opportunity to drive the Germany , Italian and French (England M1 was not as quick) roads a fair number of times . All of these high speed highways were usually in great shape due to their construction. Germany was best and when they repair the roads the usually dig down 6 to 8' to rebuild the road. This keeps the pot hole and road lifting down to nothing. Also people have the common since to yield as the merge into traffic. I never saw a "slow" driver in the high speed lane and if they were driving less the 160kph they would be getting the LH blinker coming behind them. I guess the net here is I am not opposed to anyone pushing the envelope here as long as you are the only one who gets killed. I'm OK with that but you don't know when you pull up on the 80yr old doing 55 in the left lane or the ricer zipping down the on ramp and pulls right out into the left lane without looking. If you want a wake up just join an EMS team on the weekend and get your kicks picking up the body parts. Remember you are on 20-30 year old brake technology and your airbag is a steering wheel and a windshield. Happy riding oh and when your in upstate NY I'll most likely know when my NYSP friends tell me they had fun papering an Fcar today.

 

As for terrible drivers- you should live in Washington DC. Not only are there terrible drivers, but we have diplomats who have diplomatic immunity and special license plates. They are absolutely awful drivers who have no quams about doing the most stupid maneuvers.

Also, if you have an overwhelming passion to speed on public roads, just get a classic car. Any modern BMW will be able to blow by you, but you much more fun at legal speeds then the BMW would ever have.

 

Raise gas to $6 a gallon like in Germany and you will see the quality of the remaining drivers come way up. It would also help develpment of mass transit. Bring on the gasoline taxes!

 

I have driven alot of cars....everything from a Lotus Cortina (when it ran)...to various Fcars (348, TR, F40)...SL55...to an Indycar, on the track and on the road, in Europe and the US......and most of the time pretty quickly. I haven't had any recent chats with our boys in blue, any accidents or incidents.

In the US I usually feel that somebody is about to do something stupid as there is no driver's ed other than the fat gym teacher taking you to the golden arches....so you just keep on your toes! In Europe....the drivers are educated and are always looking.

Either way if I didn't want to drive fast I would have bought a Corolla.

Ciao

 

a lot of the stuff being brought up are really good points, with the unattentive drivers and poor driver training. i'm seeing less attention being paid to the condition of the roads though. the autobahn's construction is of a lot higher quality than that of US highways. a few potholes or oil on the road can be a real pain in the ass at 120mph. even if you can see for miles it'll be hard to pick something like that up at times.

 

I am not looking to be like"big brother" here or anything like that. I've done it too. BUT. I was reading in a magazine for those of you who drive newer cars, that lets suppose you do get into an accident and do kill that "little old lady". With the computers in the newer cars the info right prior to impact can be accessed, and when they see you were doing 150, oh boy. Never mind points, or loss of lic. How about manslaughter. Or whatever the correct charge would be. (Wouldn't want to be there)

 

It is not the speed IMO that causes the problem it is the speed difference. If we are all travelling at similar speeds then everything happens together, etc. ... but if you are doing 150 and somebody infront is only doing 50 then your closing speed is very high and you just have to guess what they are going to do.

On the race track you are taught to hold your line for these reasons ... but Joe Average driver is not and may move the wrong way, etc.

I though totally agree that setting the laws so all the concentrate on regarding bad driving is speed is stupid and is actually lowering the ability of new drivers. I know many drivers that are out of control at less than the speed limit ... but the police think they are perfect drivers.

Anyway, if you want to go fast go to your local race track ... otherwise remove your brain and insert the 'standard' chip and follow everybody else slowly, half asleep home.

Pete

 

Previously posted: "I believe that the laws in the US are made for the lowest common denominator. I.e. the dumbest driver on the street. "

Note that the lowest common denominator also applies for the vehicle as well as for the driver. IMHO both need to be tested/licensed for suitability to travel at high speed.

It always ticks me off to be stopped for going a few mph over a speed limit that was set for dummies driving dumptrucks.

 

I was rewarded with a ticket for speeding today.

3 lane highway, doing steady 80 in the center lane. No traffic behind me except a motorcycle by 5 car lengths and none in front me except a a red Sentra slowly creeping up a big yellow school bus with no passengers in the right lane. There's no other traffic in front or behind for 1/2 a mile or more.

It took me 30 seconds to close a 10 a car gap between the front of me and the back of the Sentra. We're all travelling within one or two miles from each other. The Sentra checks his mirrors and signals so I signal and move over. I didn't change speed at all, neither did the Sentra, neither did the bus. I had the cruise on and made a perfect lane change. The motorcycle was a police officer and pulls me over.

With hands on the wheel, keys on the dash, windows down, seat belt on, hands on the steering wheel at all times, he asks why I was speeding. I reply, "Sir, I wasn't aware I was speeding and driving with the flow of traffic." He asks for my information and I explain I'm reaching into my glovebox for it. I then pull out my DL and change of address card.

Edit: If this was my magical "out," I hope he met his quota.

After the ticket, he gives me my copy and says make sure to accelerate on the shoulder instead of out directly into traffic (which there was, sporadic and fast moving).

He leans up since the car is low, looks at the car, and asks, "How old are you again? 26, right?" I said, "Yes, Sir." He says drive safe and I say do the same. He then walks back to his motorcycle.

I felt like saying, "Yes, I'm 26. Now if you don't mind, I'd like to get to where I'm going with the flow of traffic." Why do they always ask this friggin question? In 1 front plate ticket (accident), 3 warnings, and 2 speeding violations, all of them asked the same friggin question. I'd think otherwise if they would bring this up the conversation first...

What a precious source of revenue the state has going! God forbid someone inch up and pass two other cars!

My first speeding ticket was because I was going 2mph over the flow of traffic. Now probably the same thing. I'm debating contesting this one, if its possible.

Sunny