Speeding ticket advice -- long | FerrariChat

Speeding ticket advice -- long

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by dantm, Sep 4, 2005.

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  1. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,103
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.
    Ok, so today is not my day -- I was driving Buffalo -> Boston....two speeding tickets, one in NY (50 miles west of Albany) and another ~30 miles east of the NY-MA border, in MA. You guys have to read this as the second one is Ferrari related ;-).

    First of all -- I am Canadian, currently working in Boston. I use my Canadian license only. Today I was driving a rental registered in Boston.

    Here are the stories:

    Ticket 1:

    Driving down the highway, right lane, changed into left lane to pass a minivan; further down the road in the opposite direction, cop car; it crosses over the median as I pass the minivan and get in front of him, slow down slightly. I get stopped, he tells me I did 87 in 65 and writes me up for 85 in 65. I don't know what the fine is but he said I have to send in the ticket regardless to either get the fine or plead not guilty. He said he clocked me as he was driving in the opposite direction.

    I'm thinking:

    (1) Is this valid? Actually I had no idea that they can clock you while they are in motion, esp. in the opposite direction. Should I ask for the radar record and/or the radar calibration?

    Ticket 2:

    As I was going into MA, there was a red Ferrari 360, MA license 73* **0 (anybody here? :)) which I politely moved over for (also nice to observe the lines and reaffirm that the F355 is better looking from a number of angles ;-))...anyway I digress. I think there was a pack of cars, also a BMW M5 and a few others, we're all doing ~80. As we near a right-bend in the road, I'm in the right lane, the FCar is in the left lane and it quickly changes to the right lane to pass a minivan which was holding up traffic in the left lane ahead of the FCar. It then gets in front of the minivan and I see it slamming on the brakes; I do the same. Cop comes out of the bushes on the right and all cars (myself included) clear to the left-most lane; I think everybody thought the FCar is f**ed. The copper actually pulls ME over!!! Agrees with me that all the cars were going at the same speed, but he can only stop one (his words not mine!!!!); I told him that if I was doing 82 (he claimed) the FCar must have passed and gotten clocked at 90+, he said "oh yeah maybe but I clocked you". Finally he said: 'look I've given 20+ tickets today, take a 75 in a 65, minimum fine, $100 and go slower'.

    IT was funny somewhat, I caught up with the FCar later towards the 90-95 (south shore) split, it went south on 95 and I came home downtown to return the car and lick my ticket wounds ;-(

    Ok, do you guys have any advice, can I appeal on any grounds? I'd be looking to fight both tickets!

    Furthermore, do MA and NY points transfer to Ontario?

    THANKS A MILLION!!!!
     
  2. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,238
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Randy
    You are easy to catch, that's why you were pulled over.

    I've never heard of anyone thinking they couldn't be tagged while in motion. This is the 21st century and it's been done for quite a long time.

    I'm going to hold back on any advise and any analysis of the tickets and leave you with one word: traffic tickets have nothing to do with the law, they are a business. You get a reduced fine, you still lose. You pay out in full, you still lose. You take any kind of plea, you still lose.
     
  3. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,103
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.
    No no, I know the technology is out there to clock you in motion/whatever, I remember ~10 years ago there was a thing called photo radar in Canada/Ontario where unmarked vans would drive around and get your speed and send you a photo of the car with the recorded speed. Well they were outlawed eventually...

    I was just thinking it's not used by the cops.
     
  4. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    23,343
    Taxachusetts
    Full Name:
    Raymond Luxury Yacht
    You can definitely get clocked in motion. The radar gun reads the speed of the cop car (which has a calibrated speedo) and shows him the speed of the clocked car, corrected for his speed.

    I think you are probably screwed. In MA, the whole thing about fighting tickets doesnt seem to work. Even if the cop doesnt show, it wont matter. At best you may get it pleaded down a few MPH but likely not more. I am guessing you were on the Mass Turnpike and these were state troopers? Out west in MA in places like Chicopee they make a lot of $$ on tickets so they never get dropped it seems. The cops usually dont show, they schedule all tickets for a given day and that city sends a representative on that day for all tickets. The ticket serves as "prima facie" evidence, meaning the ticket is the testimony so even if the cop doesnt show, you can still get tagged by the judge.

    On the other hand, the worst they will do is tack on $50 or so in court costs if you lose, so you dont have a heck of a lot to lose fighting it. You will always go before the magistrate first and he/she will have 20-30 other people who were scheduled on the same day. They will offer you a $50 lower fine or something and if you decline it will go before a judge, but it will normally be scheduled on a different day for that.

    Whatever you do, don't try the "but we were all speeding" line in court, sure way to get yourself a loss on that battle :)
     
  5. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,663
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    i have long wanted to go to court for a speeding ticket, bt have gotten out of the ones i have had in the last several years. i couldn;t tell you you if this would work, but it does show how much of a dork i am.

    first speed (more correctly called velocity) is a vector quantity not a scalor quantity. basically, it has to be measured in three dimensions, not two. as such, miles per hour measures two dimensions, the third would need te be direction. my whole problem with this is how often are you actually driving consistnetly the speed you were clocked at? most often. it is a sudden surge of the accelerator that finds you in trouble, not consistent speed. if you are charged with driving 90 miles per hour, wouldn't it have to be proved that you were traveling at a rate that would take you 90 miles in one hour?

    when you take a breif sample and extrapolate it into the future distance one would cover, i think that you would also have to show that this extrapolation is possible.

    i know this is taking the letter of the law and exploiting it, but in theory, it is true. i imagine that even if you had a jury trial, it would be over th eheads of the jury and they would find you guilty for being a smartass. i also imagine that this has been explored before.
     
  6. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,103
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
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    Dan B.
    Did you actually write up a letter with this argument or did you try to use this at all in the past?

    What do you guys think of the tactics given here:

    http://www.blurofinsanity.com/Speeding.html
     
  7. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    23,343
    Taxachusetts
    Full Name:
    Raymond Luxury Yacht
    No offense but this is a bunch of hooey. Speed is the scalar value of a velocity vector. You do not need to know the direction and there is no reason you would need to be going 90mi in one hour to be ticketed with a 90mph ticket. "mph" is just a description of the number, it doesn't imply that the speed occurred over a period of an hour. The speed limit is an instantaneous limit, not an hourly average limit. You cannot go 100mph for 10 seconds then 40mph for the rest of an hour and be free from getting caught.

    Regarding the tips from the site below, I can't say about NY, but I doubt it will work in MA. As I said, in MA you get a hearing date and go before the magistrate. There will be 10-20 other ticket people there that day because they schedule them all at the same time. They generally do NOT allow you to reschedule. If they do, they will just put you on the next scheduled date the following week or month and you will again be there with 10-20 other people who got tickets in the past month or two. The cop may or may not show up - in many courthouses in MA, the cities or state police just send a representative who will basically just read from the cops report. The magistrate will ask if you were doing this speed, and if you say no, they will probably offer you a reduced fine. They will never offer to just drop the ticket in my experience. THey will ask if you accept or want to go before the judge. If you request judge, it will be either that day or scheduled for another day. The cop may or may not be there and the police rep will probably be there. If they are BOTH not there, you may get it dismissed, but as I said in MA the ticket itself is considered prima facie evidence so its up to the judge. Some will dismiss them others will not so a no-show by the cop doesnt mean you automatically win.

    You dont have too much to lose by going, except an additional $50 court costs. It sounds like youre looking for the magic escape route to get out of the ticket - there isnt one. I've sat in court and heard 30 people get up and use every excuse in the book. Some lame ones go with "but everyone was speeding" and others try to go with the subpoena of calibration records, copy of the officers certification, etc. Its mostly BS and wont do anything but piss off the judge most likely. I've seen these guys with reams of paperwork or who were sure they would get off because the PD did not comply with the subpoena requests. I've never seen it actually work.

    There is no magic bullet, if you want to take a change, fight it or if not just pay it. Sounds like you actually were speeding so barring some logistical technicality I think you're screwed.
     
  8. goober

    goober F1 World Champ

    Nov 15, 2004
    15,895
    Adelaide & Thredbo
    Full Name:
    Buddy Miles
    simple----dont speed
     
  9. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,647
    California
    Full Name:
    Carbon McCoy
    FIGHT THEM BOTH...!!!
     
  10. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,103
    YYZ, BOS, SFO
    Full Name:
    Dan B.
    Ok guys I sent in letters to both places, and now I have a court appearance somewhere in upstate NY (around Albany) for about a week from now.

    How do I go about delaying this; are there any ways to ask for calibration records/etc. of the radar and the vehicle, prior to the court date? I have no intention of going there very soon, it's more than 250 miles from here.

    Oh one more question -- my name is spelled wrong on the infraction notice, I have seen it in the letter they sent me (the last name is missing two letters)....does that matter?

    THANKS!!
     
  11. Ike

    Ike F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2003
    3,543
    My advice to you is the same thing I do for myself. Use an attorney. The results can be well worth the money. They can possibly keep your driving record clean and your insurance rates the same.
     
  12. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    23,343
    Taxachusetts
    Full Name:
    Raymond Luxury Yacht
    They generally dont let you delay them - either you show or you lose automatically. You should call the court and ask for a delayed date. most times they say no or they give you one delay, and they reschedule it for when the officer has other tickets.

    The name spelling mistake means nothing and will have no effect on the outcome of the hearing, which will most likely be that you lose.
     
  13. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones

    You got a ticket, and rather than slowing down,
    you keep your foot in it and get another ticket.
    And after being stopped for some time while the officer gave you the ticket,
    you then proceed to catch up to a Ferrari that has long since past you.

    Want some advice, pay the tickets and slow down.
     
  14. tpower22

    tpower22 Formula Junior

    Jul 24, 2005
    346
    Southwest
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I got pulled over on Friday night in my 360. There was this beat up truck occupied by two red necky fellas who had been speeding by me, braking and then doing this over and over again. After about ten minutes, I say 'fu*k this', change lanes and speed up and put another car inbetween the truck and myself.

    At this point I look in my rearview mirror and there is the unsettling sight of a squad car. I hit the brakes and he flips on his lights. The two rednecks must have laughed their asses off. Anyway, I pull over and hit my head against the head rest a few times. After a minute the cop shows up next to my window and I give him my license etc and tell him that I was only speeding at that moment because i was unnerved by by the truck that had been messing with me for about ten minutes. He said that he saw them, but it wasn't smart to speed with a cop car directly behind me. I agreed. He said I was going 55 in a 35 and walked back to his car.

    I waited about 5-7 minutes thinking how this guy clocked me while I was ahead of him and why, if he saw this truck speeding up and then slamming on the brakes right next to me for literally ten minutes, why he decided to wait for me to do something and then pull me over. Anyway he comes back and tells me that he is going to let me off without a ticket.

    First time being pulled over in the Ferrari. I hope they all go that well. Anyway, good luck getting out of the tickets just figured I'd add another Ferrari ticket story to the thread.
     
  15. Artherd

    Artherd F1 Veteran

    Jun 19, 2002
    6,588
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ben Cannon
    Wow that's great. Some dirty degenerates out practicing Felony Reckless Endangerment, and joe friday here stops the ferrari.
     

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