Spin Training | FerrariChat

Spin Training

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by forgeahead, Oct 20, 2010.

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  1. forgeahead

    forgeahead F1 Rookie
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    Sep 16, 2008
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    Anybody here ever try spin training? I have been a pilot (single engine land VFR) since 1997. I am way our of being current. I have recently been heading up again. I had the opportunity to do some spin recovery training this past weekend. The pilot had quite a bit of experience and he does these spin clinics periodically around the region (NC). I went up in a Bellanca Decathalon. Let me say, dropping toward the ground 2500 feet in 4 seconds in a fully developed spin sure clears the mind! We did it several times with the most being 6 full rotations. It was incredibly educational. I faced my fears! We also did an aeleron roll.
    I felt fine up in the air. (I had a baggie in my pocket in case I lost my cookies!) I felt like crap once I was on the ground. It took me a few hours to recover.
    Intense!
     
  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    The best thing you can do to be a complete pilot. Whether you want them or not, stalls and spins happen. You should know what a spin is and how to get out of one. I had to do three of them, left and right and come out on a point, when I got my check ride.I have had several incidents that put me into inadvertent spins and I recovered from them without a second thought and I'm thankful for the training..
     
  3. sf_hombre

    sf_hombre Formula 3
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    Yes, indeedy. I may forget a lot of things as I get older, but I will not forget what my instructor called a "2 shorts lesson", smiling as he suggested I bring an extra pair of underwear along.

    The Malibu coastline and ocean looked like a rotating yin and yang symbol
     
  4. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    Agreed. I'm of the opinion that some form of spin training should be reintroduced into private pilot training, especially when you consider PPL candidates are supposed to go out and work on maneuvers in prep for the checkride. If spin awareness/stall prevention was doing the job, we wouldn't be having so many stall/spin accidents. I know of at least two students who ended up in inadvertent spins; both were EXCEPTIONALLY lucky to survive, and one airplane is now in the scrapyard. I don't really see anything dangerous about spin training when carried out legally and at altitude -- but there are plenty of dangers associated with remaining unaware of the realities of spins.

    Anyway, enough of that. Glad you had fun!! Spin training and aerobatics are so rewarding and make you a much better pilot! If you didn't throw up, you already have an advantage!
     
  5. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    As with anything else that could put you in a stressful situation, I think training is important. The more experience you have, the less likely you will panic in a stressful situation. Spins have this aura of fear for those that have never trained for them. It's that fear, in my opinion, that could get the inexperienced pilot in trouble. Fear will cause hesitation, or an untrained reaction, and an unrecoverable scenario could result.

    I've never heard a pilot come from spin training stating they are more concerned about that scenario. Quite the opposite...most are much more relaxed seeing how easy recovery is with calm reaction and proper procedure.

    I don't know why they did away with this requirement. Most pilots, I would think, would want to train for any and all eventualities.

    The fear and concern of spins is far more dangerous than stalls and spins. (Assuming you have some alt.)
     
  6. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think spin training is a great thing, although I'm mixed about requiring it for private pilots. Most stall/spin accidents take place at low altitude, where recovery with even the best technique may be impossible-- and training can breed an inappropriate level of confidence.

    However, I think for someone looking to expand his skills, it's great. And they really are a lot of fun-- I used to do them in the Citabria just for the fun of it.
     
  7. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    This is very true as well...no amount of training will save you if it happens when you're showing off for friends or turning final at 500' AGL. A friend of a friend died that way (along with his two passengers), though things may have happened differently had he not decided to smoke marijuana prior to takeoff. Smart move.
     
  8. JLF

    JLF Formula 3

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    #8 JLF, Oct 20, 2010
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    I used to do it in a Piper Tomahawk which had a bad reputation for flat spinning that you couldnt get out of, the whole tail would shake like crazy but it was pretty exhilarating. I think it should be required, if im not mistaken its not anymore. But you better have a damn good instructor who knows what hes doing... unfortunately most instructors have little flight time and id be scared to death doing it now looking back on what experience my instructors and I had at the time.
     
  9. rob lay

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    I did it in the Super D too, I think great training, but not fan of the ground becoming a blender.
     
  10. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'd be scared to death of doing it in a Tomahawk as well... A Citabria or Decathlon, not at all.

    I did some spin training in a 152, and it was a struggle to get it to do anything close enough to call it a spin-- it just wanted to mush in a turn.

     
  11. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    Ah, c'mon! That's the fun part!! :)

    A Traumahawk...yeech. Those were specifically designed to be easy to spin though, yeah? I know that predisposition gets people in trouble, but I didn't realize they have a tendency to go flat. How many turns can you get out of it before it enters the flat mode?
     
  12. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I loved the aileron rolls.
     
  13. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    What? A 152 is a spin demon! It prefers to go left and you need an aggressive stick back and rudder just prior to the stall. The 172 spins nice too but it likes a blast of power to get it in. The only piper I will spin is a Cub.

    Dave
     
  14. TURBOQV

    TURBOQV Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2003
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    Your instructor perhaps was lacking? The best way to spin a 150/152 is to use cross controlled inputs to transfer that knowledge into the base to final turn where the majority of spin accidents occur. The misguided pilot is often afraid of overshooting and adds inside rudder with opposite aileron and ends up on his back with no idea why it spun higher than the stall speed! This is the best way to demo a spin for a student. You will be on your back very quickly when it breaks in the incipient portion of the spin and certainly not in a "mushing turn"

    Kirshner's Flight Instructor Manual has a very good section on the topic.

    Cheers
     
  15. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I feel that what you are demonstrating is the difference between someone who feels the airplane vs. the mechanical inputs of one who has no sense of flight. I have flown with the latter many times and I avoided them after the first experience. Anyway, I remember being trained in cross control stalls/ spins. Also I mentioned it before when my instructor gave me a never forgotten experience in steep downwind turns where he precipitated a one turn spin while making a steep downwind turn from the downwind to the base leg at 900 feet. Trees get big in a hurry and believe me, it got my attention and I never forgot the message.
    The meanest spinning airplane that I flew was the Ryan PT-22, next was the PT-19, and the most docile was the Cub and the Stearman PT-13/17. A flying buddy of mine who did shows at Abottsford and elsewhere opened his act with an inverted 13 turn spin so if you know what you're doing an upright or inverted spin is no big deal...except when your eyes start to bug out.
     
  16. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Possibly. I did my initial spin training in a Citabria, and then when I got my CFI the instructor insisted that we do spin training again, this time in a 152.

    It was years ago, but I remember holding the yoke full back, rudder full in (can't remember left or right) and the thing just mushing along in a turn. However, I didn't sharply jerk the controls, so maybe that's what it needed. This was all 25 years ago (am I really that old?)...

    The Citabria was super easy, as it had a fairly sharp break at the stall, and kicking the rudder in at the break resulted in a very nice spin.

     
  17. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Some airplanes have to be forced into a spin by an accelerated stall and snap roll into it. The 150/ 152 are designed to resist a spin since they are modern trainers. Lots of wing twist, low wing loading, and fat airfoils...generous leading edge radius.
     
  18. nicenice

    nicenice Rookie
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    That's might be true.
     
  19. JLF

    JLF Formula 3

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    Well me stating that they go flat is just what i heard from several instructors at the time, ive never actually researched it to see if it was true although i know the airplanes have a less than great reputation, having said that, i found it was fairly predictable and easy to get out of the spin but sometimes you had to goose the throttle a bit to get some more airflow over the rudder. It was in my opinion a really great trainer and fun to fly, i think it required a little more pilot input than a 152 which some could argue was a little too easy to fly.
     
  20. JLF

    JLF Formula 3

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  21. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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  22. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Flaps deployed, center of pressure moves aft toward any aft CG condition.
     
  23. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    ...making a bad situation worse, yeah? I always thought using flaps in intentional spins is a big no-no.
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    how does a Cirrus recover from a spin? ;)
     
  25. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I spun a Tomahawk during my early training days. We were working on accelerated stalls and I would be pushing out too early. I hung on longer per the instructor's demands and tada....around we went over the top. I was 17 at the time.

    The log book entry reads "intro to emergency procedures" per my flight instructors writing.

    the next entry in my log book was "aircraft familiarization" in a 172....10 years later.

    That spin scared the carp out of me.....never done one since and have 800 hours, multi, sea, IFR, etc.... Probably need to get it over with and tackle the demon, but ick.
     

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