In some respects I agree, but the only real arena to appreciate these aeroplanes fully,is in the environment to which they were created to master- the air. Sit in a Spit or a 51's cockpit and look out on that nose, or look to the port and starboard and see that wing platform, knowing under your left hand is 1600 hp, it does send a shiver up you back and tighten the scrotum! Gathering dust in a museum. No Thanks. Sit and talk to the blokes that flew them, and listen to their voice and see their eyes when they talk about flying a spitfire. They are not frail 90 year olds, they're 20 again. Such reverence and passion, and excitement. My mate Barney can still tell you the start up cockpit check after all this time! It's a joy and something to see.
Perhaps I should have said to restore a very original COMPLETE WW2 aircraft which is what I meant. When you have a few bits of mangled metal it doesn't matter what you do IMO.
They can build identical replicas now which would provide the experience you describe. If you have a complete and totally original aircraft like that ME 109 in Canberra it would be an absolute crime to destroy it by making it airworthy. Make a replica and fly it, absolutely ok; but the original is irreplaceable.
I see your point, but I don't think I can agree. Extrapolating your theory, eventually there wouldn't be any airworthy Spitfires, P51s etc. And to me that would be the greatest tragedy of all. I love the fact that there are a few wealthy and dedicated enough people in the world to both keep the airworthy examples flying, and restore more of them. As long as it is done faithfully I'm all for it.
It is easy to apply automotive thinking of "restoration" to aircraft restoration. They are light years apart in pretty much every aspect. You can maintain originality and make a car roadworthy without losing the essence of what it is. You keep most of the original parts and simply making them function correctly suffices for roadworthiness. They are the bits the car was delivered with by and large and retain the patination of age. The essence of the car remains intact. Aircraft are totally different and when you make a 70 year old plane airworthy you are REPLACING the vast majority of the original bits with remanufactured bits that comply with far stricter safety standards. Not much of the original aircraft makes it through to the final product. The essence of the original is lost and what you have would be termed a replica by automotive standards. I don't know the history of each of the 50 odd surviving airworthy Spitfires; but I would be surprised if there was one still flying that was completely "original" in the automotive sense of the word. When you can completely remanufacture a replica from nothing that is identical to an original, I can't see why you need to destroy the originality of a true survivor in order to see one fly.
With respect I think it is you who is applying "automotive" thinking to this situation. ie. It is an automotive thing to get massively hung up on the minutiae of "original factory" bits. There wouldn't be an aircraft alive - Spitfire or otherwise - that hasn't had many, many parts replaced over its lifetime. Especially the critical bits. In fact, in a lot of ways, that's what makes it an aircraft (as opposed to a historic car). After all, even if Supermarine was still going and still maintaining them the vast majority of the parts in a Spitfire now would not be original, would they? As I understand it, most of the significant warbirds which still grace the skies have been very faithfully restored. If for example they replaced the Merlin with a PT6 I'd agree they shouldnt have bothered, but generally they don't.
Agreed. When there is a Spitfire Concours where judges in silly hats and armed with clipboards peer into cockpits and tut-tut over incorrect stitching on the seat I'll concede your point. In the meantime I'm just happy that some people do the rest of us a favour and keep a few of these most beautiful of machines in the air.
A very fine line you draw I'm afraid. Understandable, but fine. The only time these aeroplanes were original was at the Castle Bromwich factory when they rolled off the assembly line and the test pilots sign them off. Once the ferry pilots had delivered them that was it. Some never got off the ground before being shot up. Pilots with less than 10-12 hrs on type would crash them, ground loop them, belly land them, let alone combat damage. If they survived that, the airframe rarely ever saw the original engine again, as the whole thing was replaced with a new or re-furbished unit. There were many, many, field modifications and developments. Wings were taken off and repaired or replaced, cowlings, rudder and control surfaces shot up or off. Or in the case of some pilots trying to shoot down V1's the whole aeroplane was toasted. They had a whole massive repair and salvage factory dedicated to taking aircraft that have been literally torn in two, repaired and returned to service with front line squadron's. If components are manufactured to the same specification from original drawings is it not the same? It is only in the last ten years that the original extrusion machine that was owned by Alcan for producing the laminated main spar for Spitfires was found. Original machine producing Original parts. It would be nice if someone had the foresight to look after just a few of these gems after the war in totally original condition, of course. I have the photos of Oakey and to see the way over 200 spitfires and 200 Kittyhawks and 50 brand new zero hour Mustangs were just burnt to the ground and chopped up is just a crime. We don't learn as they did the same thing to the F111's. But a static display in a museum? It's like putting a war veteran in jail. In Automotive terms, it would be like owning a Ferrari and never ever hearing it run or stretch its legs with any of us behind the wheel. What a crime.
On the subject of Spitfire restorations, this programme featuring Guy Martin, better known for Isle of Man TT nutjobbery, may be of interest: Guy Martin's Spitfire - Channel 4
"In period" modifications are considered to be acceptable in most forms of this sort of collecting. Modern era modifications are a different thing altogether and considerably dilute the authenticity of the machine in question. The original ME 109 that I referred to earlier would likely have the sorts of modifications that you refer to, all done in period. Nobody would dispute the originality of it 70 years later as any modifications were performed in active duty all those years ago. OTOH if somebody decided to make it airworthy now, the vast majority of it would be replaced and the essence of what makes it exceptional would be lost forever. As you point out, with an unlimited budget you can make one from a "tacho needle" that is indistinguishable from the original. So fly those and preserve what can't be replaced. After all, a "restored" aircraft has very little of the original left in it anyway. I am aware of the spitfire main spar situation and it is replayed in the automotive world today. There are a number of original manufacturers who can turn out new chassis for various models using the original tooling. Completely identical in every respect; but can you really call it the original chassis if you stamp the original S/N on the freshly manufactured chassis? Of course not.
All of what you say is correct. I just like to see and hear these wonderful aeroplanes in the air, where you can see them airborne. Smell the burnt fuel as they go by, see the flames on start up from the exhaust stubs mixed with the prop wash blow over you as it moves from the flight line. Gathering dust in a museum, silent, where nobody hears the song of a Merlin, is a terrible way to show these aeroplanes off. I defy any of the motor head lunatics on this forum to hear a spitfire come past you on a high speed low level pass and not have the hairs on your arm stand up. Just like hearing one of the old F1 cars go past at Monaco, nearly sucks your ears off. It's something you never forget. Keep them flying I say.
I only worked on REOHOS with multi-stage afterburners !!! Wanna hear deafening roar that burns the hairs off your arms ? F111 zone 3
If somebody wants to restore one of THOSE I'll be very happy to watch it fly Probably has to come out of a museum though, unless you want to start the job with a shovel
The RAAF trained me to drive ALL the machines it had in it's inventory, never understood why, just picked me out of the squadron to be the general dog's body to drive Clarktor, Paymover, ambulance, Tadano crane, 4wd, bus, 18 wheeler ....... would have liked to have a go at a tank but I suppose all my BMWs fill that bill Bulldozer might help too but I don't have a ticket for one of them, just like doctors, we bury our mistakes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80OadL7f8Lo
The loping, rolling note of a Merlin engine is as iconic as they come and I agree it makes the hairs on your arm stand up. My point is you can get that experience with planes that have already been rebuilt, so why destroy the real thing to experience it?
