Spitting fire from my TR.

So, there was a pretty sweet storm that knocked out just about all the power on the island of Oahu, Hawaii the other day. As I was sitting around the house without power and with really nothing to do, I went to the bar like any normal guy in his mid-twenties would. Turns out, they didn't have any power either, but were still serving beers. After a couple, I got in my Mercedes and for whatever reason the check engine light was on. Not a huge deal. I turned off the car and went to turn it back on to reset the computer to see if the light was just spurious. Apparently, the power outage also affected the starter on the Benz. Lights and auxiliaries all seemed to work, but it wasn't even trying to start. So a friend and I pushed it into a parking lot and he gave me a ride the rest of the way home.

This caused me to have to drive my TR to work the next day (yesterday). Also, not that big of a deal. It did, however, rain relatively substantially yesterday. I don't overly mind the rain, but my car had to sit in it all day. Being in the military, it was a full 24 hour shift, but it stopped raining yesterday afternoon.

As I was driving home this morning, there was a metallic sound like I had just driven over one of those huge metal plates the workers like to put in the middle of the roads when they're doing the exact same roadwork they have been doing for the past four years. I guess to cover up the fact that they're really not doing anything and getting paid a lot of money for it. Anyway, there wasn't a metal plate in the road, so I'm not exactly sure what the sound was. Immediately following, it almost felt and sounded like I had a flat tire. So I pulled off to the side of the Highway and saw no flat tires, but the passenger exhaust sounded a little off. I attempted to finish the trip home, but the car felt sluggish and highly underpowered. The next thing I know there are glowing embers coming out of my car from somewhere, so I pulled off the side of the road yet again, turned off the car and popped the hood. The passenger side muffler was glowing red.

That's when I called a good friend of my fathers who has owned Ferraris of some sort for at least as long as I can remember, and he said it sounds like something with the ignition system on that side of the engine. Injecting gas, but not igniting it, so gas is being sprayed through the exhaust. I checked for loose wires and what-not, but with my limited experience with Ferraris and engines in general, I didn't see anything. I let it all cool off and limped the rest of the way home, stopping frequently to check on the exhaust temperature. I'm not really sure where to go from here. I'm hoping it's something as easy as damp wires somewhere that'll dry out in my garage, but I doubt it. And I have absolutely no idea what that metallic sound was, either.

As always, any and all hints, tips and comments are GREATLY appreciated. For some reason, I think it'll be easier to fix the Ferrari than the Mercedes. Damn Germans and their "superior" automotive design...

-Olin

 

Definitely sounds like you are running on 6 cylinders. One possible culprit that is easy to diagnose is the coil. Simply swap the coils to see if the problem moves to the other side. Test this by pulling a plug wire and holding it close enough to the end of the plug to spark (on the bad side). If no spark, then swap the coils and try it again. If it now sparks you have your culprit. Not sure about the loud noise you heard. A coil going bad wouldn't cause that.

 

Cool. I'll go do that. Thanks.

 

I think you may have a different issue, one that I had on a Toyota some years back. Seems to me that you have a massive exhaust restriction, probably caused by the guts collapsing inside one of your catalytic converters. This would explain the metalic noise that you heard and when the exhaust gets partially blocked it gets very, very hot and the additional back pressure makes the engine run like a pig.

Also on a Cat equipped car, the O2 sensor on that side won't be working properly any more so your mixtures will be screwed.

That's my take on your issue, but if you come back and say that the car has no Cats, then you need to look further.

If you dump ignition on one bank it still feeds fuel but doesn't ignite it, so the exhaust gets sprayed internally with fuel but as it cools it won't ignite the fuel, and contrary, the fuel will cool it as long as it doesn't ignite in the pipes. It doesn't hurt to drive these cars with one bank down over short distances.

 

Okay, I swapped the coils and it started, but didn't run.
Then I swapped them back and it ran at about 750 RPM vice the normal 1000. Makes sense to me with only 6 cylinders.
So I took the coil from the bad side and put it on the good side with the other coil still removed and it didn't start.
I put the coil from the good side on the bad side with the other coil removed and it started, but didn't run.
I put the good coil back on the good side with the bad side coil removed and it started and ran at 750 RPM.

I am sure that the coil from the bad side is bad, but since it starts and doesn't run with the good coil on the bad side I fear I may have done something elsewhere.
Any more suggestions? Anyone know of a Ferrari mechanic in Hawaii?

Thank you again,
-Olin

 

It has Tubi exhaust, but I don't think it has any cats. I have a little free time today, so I think I'm going to go take the exhaust I have apart and check it all out.

Thank you,
-Olin

 

No, you are probably OK (except for maybe damaging a pre-cat or cat -- you must have one, or both; otherwise, there is no ignition source to ignite the unburned fuel and overheat your muffler). On the KE-Jet TR (US version, CH version, late euro version), the fuel pumps will only run if the 7-12 coil is actually working, or if the starter motor is cranking, so you get the exact symptom that you are reporting:

7-12 coil good and 1-6 coil bad = engine fires up and runs (slowly) on 7-12 bank only.

7-12 coil bad and 1-6 coil good = engine fires, but will not continue to run.

Your next task is to determine if it's the power module on top of the coil that's bad or the coil itself -- again, by swapping the bits around you should be able to determine who is the bad player (so you don't have to buy the more expensive complete coil+power module assembly).

Good hunting!

 

True. I did a little more looking and it turns out, I have no cats and the muffler wasn't glowing, it was the pre-cat. I haven't gotten it taken apart yet, but from checking the prices this may be a good time to upgrade to the hyperflow pre-cat from Ricambi...

I have to go back to work this evening, but I will keep you posted on the coil. Any ideas where to find a new one? And since I'm replacing one, should I replace them both as a pair?

Thank you all again.
-Olin

 

Running the pre-cats without the cats is sort of an oddball TR exhaust configuration IMO, and you'd be better off running inactive pre-cat bypass pipes (either the Hyper-Flow, or the F PN 142166 & 142167, or hollowing out your existing precats -- if you've melted one internally anyway) and active cats.

Please do -- we like to know how things eventually work out

I'd think it more likely that the power module has failed rather than the coil, so figure out just what you really need. IMO, there's no need to preventatively replace anything more than just what has actually failed.

If you do a search on "BKL 3B" (the Marelli PN), you should get some good threads on the power module. I buy on best price so I just usually figure out the PN I need and check prices at Ricambi-America, www.allferrariparts.com, and T. Rutlands (and www.eurospares.co.uk just for another price reference). If it is the power module, I would also investigate getting it from WAI-Wetherill as David Feinberg suggested in one of those "BKL 3B" threads:

http://www.wai-wetherill.com/products/partimage.cfm?wai_num=XM631

 

check the rotor on the bank that doesnt seem to be running, the car isnt getting spark and since you changed the coil,and it didnt help, that should be the problem.

 

I completely agree. I have no idea why it was done this way, but I have every intension of fixing this. If the one is melted, I will initially hollow them out, but if not, I think I'll eventually go for the Hyper-Flow. I'm not quite there yet, though.

Good call. That's exactly what it was.

Cool. Thanks. I guess it's a third party available part, so it'll be fairly reasonable. This has turned out to be a lot less of a deal than I thought when I was standing next to the car in the rain on the side of the Highway this morning. And now I get to upgrade the exhaust.

 

Glad you're getting it sorted out. Unfortunately, I think most of us TR owners know exactly what you mean about the bad feeling when it breaks, but you should balance that with a good feeling everytime it runs well -- everytime I use mine, and it seems to work OK, I get out, and think to myself "wow, another miracle"

 

Steve Your the MAN!!! People can always count on you to step up to the plate when help is needed. Detailed pics & instructions included at no extra charge. I know everyone appreciates your efforts. Sounds like it is hyperflow race pipe time for Saltie.

 

Thanks for the kind words BD -- always glad to help out one of the TR brethren if I can.

 

Dear Ferraristi,

Please check out a couple of threads I posted....

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204465

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=137852562#post137852562


I wouldn't be surprised that you had one bank go out with all the moisture from being 24 hrs in the rain....check your cap and rotor for condensation. With the ignition out, all the raw fuel started the beginning of the famous TR cat fire.

I too concur with Steve that's it's probably the module on top of the coil....happened to me. I bought mine from T Rutands.

I think you basically had two issues together.

BTW, the bang you heard was probably the fuel igniting in the precat.


Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

I found the WAI unit that was mentioned above at https://ems.qwik-orderdirect.com/cgi-bin/lansaweb?procfun+ITEMS+MFGITM+CEP+FUNCPARMS+MCMFGC(A0030):WAI+PAGEN(P0060):26 Search for the XM631.

If you don't mind aftermarket the price is easier to swallow although they're currently out of stock with no ETA.

 

Cool. I just got mine in the mail, also from T Rutlands. I put it in this morning, started her up and both banks were running. GREAT!!! I have my car back!
Then I noticed the exhaust from the side that was bad was puttering a little bit. Not as bad, but similar to when I first pulled over thinking I had a flat tire. Damn. Something else is going on. I called Carlo, the mechanic in Seattle who I'm pretty sure works on the entire F-Club of Seattle's cars. He recommended that I take out and clean all the spark plugs on that side. He mentioned that I need a special tool to do this which I thought I had, but it doesn't look like it anymore. What does this magical tool look like?

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to. I took off the distributer cap and all was well and dry. That was actually the first thing I did after I got home. Nothing inside was even remotely damp.

Thank you all again for all the help.
-Olin

 

You need a very thin-walled 18 mm socket or a very thin-walled 11/16" socket (~17.5 mm) that is a little sloppy on the size so it fits the 18 mm hex drive feature on the plug:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136038

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=214361

 

Dear Ferraristi,

The cap / rotor inspection was towards the bank non-firing issue....coil module solved that.

I wouldn't clean the plugs, they can get fouled and ruined with raw fuel....just replace them. I use the OEM champions (replaced once a year regardless of mileage ) that are pretty cheap...a couple of dollars ea.

Were you referring to a "special tool" for cleaning or removing the plugs? If to remove....Steve M is on the money ( as usual )

I'm wondering if the odd sound you're hearing is a blocked precat. Perhaps the matrix has melted. You should take them off and take a look....knock them out if blocked.


Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice !

 

At the advice of Carlo, I took out all the spark plugs on that bank and cleaned them (151 does in fact clean everything). He said to drive around for a while, keeping the RPM at less than 3000. I drove around for a while like that, but it's still sputtering. Looks like the next step is to pull out the precats and replace the spark plugs.

-Olin